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*Loud music*

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*Loud music*

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*Loud music*

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*Loud music*

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*Loud music*

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*Loud music*

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*Loud music*

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*Loud music*

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*Loud music*

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I'm sorry.

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I'm sorry.

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I'm sorry.

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Greatly enhanced his reputation. Greatly enhanced his reputation. You hammered your mother. You hammered your mother. I love women. Don't you have a life? Don't you have a life? You are a liar.

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Handheld gaming devices.

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Nintendo Game Boy.

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Handheld gaming devices.

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Nintendo Game Boy.

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Nintendo Game Boy.

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Nintendo Game Boy.

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Computer games.

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Computer games.

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Computer games.

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Computer games.

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Computer games.

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Computer games.

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*Dramatic music*

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Twisted!

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*Dramatic music*

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Dispatches unwrapped the story behind...

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People getting undressed, you know, going to the bathroom.

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Twisted!

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Dispatches investigate. Monday at 8 on 4.

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*Dramatic music*

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Paul Sintler...

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A dispatches undercover investigation.

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Monday at 8 on 4.

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*Dramatic music*

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*Dramatic music*

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*Dramatic music*

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*Dramatic music*

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*Dramatic music*

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*Dramatic music*

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*Dramatic music*

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*Dramatic music*

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Is Chip your real name, by the way, or is that a persona for the website?

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No, now it's my real name.

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It was originally a nickname that, uh, got added to my name legally.

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Alright. A lot of the sites have a sort of sexual connotation of...

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Take your clothes off, Chip.

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Sure.

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Housewife can.

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There's a very kind of sexual connotation to it. I mean, you're a very attractive woman.

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A good-looking lady who walks around sometimes with not too much clothes on.

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Who shots you there sort of topless at the keyboard or hanging around in, you know, small clothing.

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Additional funding is provided by the Software Publishers Association.

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Providers of educational materials to help manage software.

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*Dramatic music*

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Welcome, Paul Schindler.

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Today, I'm Paul Schindler.

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*Making Sound*

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Yo friends, it's up, it's your boy Scope Talk. I run a gaming clip channel which deals primarily montages of epic gameplay, clutch kills, team wipes, epic killstreaks. Insane.

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Hello, Francis, your mic is off. Your microphone is off, Francis. Please turn your microphone back on. Hello. Hello. I don't know what's going on there. It's an absolute disaster with the microphone there. And I ended up having a dose of laryngitis when trying to shout.

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I'm actually channeling Tommy Schlug's telephone voice scenario on my own voice. Our Schultz, thank you very much. And Seem of the Sack, thank you very much. And Jay Magoo, how the hell are you? Thank you very much.

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Let's get this going now. We've got some Fat 32 scenarios.

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But first, none other than another slip up from Farage's show I seen the other day when he went to show a clip, but the clip wasn't good. And then you could hear someone talking in the background. I thought all the gaffs were coming from the live broadcast the other day because it was like a hodgepodge of trying to put a show together on the hoof. But it turns out, even in the studio, they have bad production.

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Well, they say that Manson is now a powder keg and it's a disaster. And another good story, I thought, good in the sense that it exposes the truth, is that Albanian migrants, who, by the way, now constitute 60% of those that are coming, are now walking out of the lovely hotels they're put in within two to three days and going straight to cannabis farms.

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What on earth is going on? If you look at TikTok...

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He's building it up. He mentions TikTok and then he said there's a video coming up. Thank you very much, Captain Sack, for the tip there.

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You can see that openly boasting. Let's see some of this footage that was recently shown on Albanian television.

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Let's see it.

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What's going on?

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Okay.

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Do you see that?

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And someone in the background going,

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Are you okay for water?

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Yeah.

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One more time.

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Recently shown on Albanian television.

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Technical gremlins.

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Are you okay for water?

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And then look, the look on the face of Fragge.

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He knows that it's yet again another fuck up on the broadcast.

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And it's during one of his favorite pieces as well about migrant crossings.

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This is not good.

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Are you okay for water?

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Okay.

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So look, this is a joke.

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It is a joke.

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And we were watching it.

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Thanks, Nigel.

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Let's get on to this Computer Chronicles tip.

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Thank you very much there for the tip, Scumbelina.

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I hope you're getting on well.

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And just to say thank you, here's a little blast of Teeny Cocks.

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Lovely bit of Teeny Cocks.

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Now...

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Sorry.

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I wasn't ready for the blast.

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Cyberblast.

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Cybertown.

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Cyberville.

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This week at the Internet Cafe, the hacker culture.

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Are they demons?

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Did we see this?

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Did we see this before?

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Just let me know there.

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I don't want to be repeating old Internet Cafe episodes.

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Thank you very much there.

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I'm okay for water.

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And Vernie Teabag.

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Thank you very much.

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A twofer.

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What a treat, you say.

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Thank you very much for that.

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We haven't seen the hackers.

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This is the very first ever...

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Savior.

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Internet Cafe.

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Net Cafe episode.

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And we've got...

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Would you trust your files?

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Hackers.

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This lad is in it.

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Brian...

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Like a red-headed Brian May.

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To this man?

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What is the cult of the dead?

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I think he said something like,

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Would you...

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Would you give your details to this man?

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This week at the...

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Have we...

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Have we had this?

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Internet Cafe, the hacker culture.

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Are they demons or saviors?

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Would you trust your files to this man?

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Kind of...

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Paul Brady.

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Paul Brady's after you.

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What is the cult of the dead cow?

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We'd remember seeing that guy if we'd...

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These guys use their real names.

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Plus free software.

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A cyber blast of four megabytes of cool stuff.

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If you've got a TV modem.

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Hackers tonight at the Internet Cafe.

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The Internet Cafe is made possible in part by Intel.

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One idea always leads to another.

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Now there are connected CD-ROMs that link rich multimedia with related information on the Internet.

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For connected CD-ROMs, it's the Intel Pentium Processor.

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Hi and welcome to the Internet Cafe.

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I'm Stuart Chiffey.

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I'd like you to meet my friends Jane and Andrew.

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And we're here at a cyber cafe in San Francisco called Coffee Net.

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And we're talking about hackers tonight.

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We're going to meet some hackers tonight.

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And it's kind of timely because...

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Coffee Net.

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...some hackers got into the CIA's website.

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So it makes you really wonder if it's easy to break into and alter the homepage that's run by the Central Intelligence Agency.

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How safe is your company's website, your personal website, personal information that's out there on the net, your credit card and that kind of stuff.

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It's kind of scary.

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It really is.

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Kind of scary.

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You know, it was interesting for me when we were going to all the websites and looking at all the things, especially that CIA website.

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And Jane Withers' style has changed because this is an earlier episode.

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We're only used to seeing the second or third or fourth series where they're in a better cafe.

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This is a rubbish cafe.

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This is well.

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They upgraded in the later series.

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Thank you very much, Norbu San.

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I hope you're getting that well.

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I get an understanding of what's making these guys tick.

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Why are they doing what they're doing?

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I mean, is it really about a political agenda and freedom of information?

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Are these guys just having fun?

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I'm also excited because we're going to talk not only.

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That was a, I'm sorry, there's some chat, there's some bots in the chat.

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I need to get rid of them.

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But there was a hanging chad of conversational awkwardness there.

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Just as we were having fun.

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Moving up.

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Is it really from withers?

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Listen to the hanging chad coming right up.

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Agenda and freedom of information.

187
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Are these guys just having fun?

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I'm also excited.

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Because we're going to talk not only to hackers, but to corporate security network experts.

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And these are guys who spend their days trying to keep hackers out of their networks.

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And we're going to look at some of the tools that they have developed to catch hackers.

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And also see how hackers may be using those same tools themselves to get into systems.

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And same time as the same guy as a hacker and he's a corporate security consultant at the same time.

194
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All right, we in fact are going to meet some of the most notorious, infamous hackers in the world tonight.

195
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And we're going to visit some very weird websites where the hackers hang out.

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Sounds good.

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We're here with Dan Farmer, who is a corporate network security expert and has been a consultant for many large computer companies.

198
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And we're going to talk a little bit about what network security means.

199
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I'm just curious how you got started in the security business.

200
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Well, back in 89, which is kind of like the stone ages on the internet.

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I've said a long time ago.

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This is a cool customer.

203
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This is a cool customer.

204
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Not quite.

205
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That's not right.

206
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Dan Farmer here.

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And thank you very much, Brooklyn, for your kind-hearted and generous Brooklynite.

208
00:13:09,100 --> 00:13:17,180
Tip Rip Arunas and Miserable Cafe Donuts and OSW Review and Fave Doley.

209
00:13:17,300 --> 00:13:18,220
Thank you very much.

210
00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:20,180
Long time no see, Fave Doley.

211
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Sophistic and Hanan-held console.

212
00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:26,600
I wish it were, but I was actually finishing up school.

213
00:13:26,740 --> 00:13:28,920
I was kind of programming and going to school at halftime.

214
00:13:29,780 --> 00:13:35,300
And I was one credit short of graduation, so I took a summer class and wrote a program called COPS.

215
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Now, did you finish school?

216
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I have to ask that.

217
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I finished school.

218
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I got my bachelor's paper.

219
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Major parents.

220
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Great.

221
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What did COPS do?

222
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Well, COPS was a security audit program.

223
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It basically diagnosed a Unix computer and told you what was wrong or right about the system.

224
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Great.

225
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And I gave it away, attracted some interest in industry and government, and I got a call

226
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from CERT, which is the Computer Emergency Response Team, to get a job out in Carnegie Mellon.

227
00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:03,540
Now, is CERT a government agency?

228
00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:08,060
No, CERT was a federally funded research company.

229
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Okay.

230
00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:09,240
And so...

231
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Carnegie Mellon.

232
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Actually, they would get government money, but they were free to do...

233
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Look at that crash zoom on Andrew.

234
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This is where...

235
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This is the birth of the style.

236
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You got to remember.

237
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Stu Baby Shafé.

238
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The Stu Man.

239
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Stu Man Shoe.

240
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This lad here.

241
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Made the jump, the leap, the transition from Computer Chronicles into the worldwide web-based

242
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show, Net Cafe, which had to have a style change to it from the regimented kind of militancy

243
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of Computer Chronicles to a more free-form, late 90s.

244
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Thanks very much, little Howard Stern.

245
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Kind of crash zoom MTV style, oblique angles, oblique strategies, and some Dutch angles and

246
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crash zooms as well.

247
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So it's great to see.

248
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You love to see it.

249
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And this guy is talking about some programming.

250
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They wanted with...

251
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They were actually part of a larger organization called the Software Engineering Institute.

252
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Okay, great.

253
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So tell me...

254
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Okay, great.

255
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So tell me...

256
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Thanks very much for the tip, Silage.

257
00:15:14,620 --> 00:15:18,220
Kind of what the average day would be like for a corporate network security person.

258
00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:22,620
Well, you know, I don't really know what an average day is.

259
00:15:22,620 --> 00:15:24,120
Okay, what would be an exciting day?

260
00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:26,220
A day that would just really get your blood flowing?

261
00:15:26,460 --> 00:15:28,080
Well, there's good days and bad days.

262
00:15:28,260 --> 00:15:32,900
A bad day might be that you get a page or a phone call at 3 a.m.

263
00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:33,860
And someone says...

264
00:15:33,860 --> 00:15:34,780
Thanks, Darren Mack for the tip.

265
00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:38,260
...just broken into our main corporate computers.

266
00:15:38,540 --> 00:15:40,600
And what are you going to do about it?

267
00:15:40,620 --> 00:15:41,340
You know, save the day.

268
00:15:41,340 --> 00:15:43,220
And then you have to scramble around looking for...

269
00:15:43,220 --> 00:15:44,840
Trying to track down intruders or...

270
00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:45,100
Great.

271
00:15:45,180 --> 00:15:47,360
Now, what do you usually use to track down intruders?

272
00:15:47,460 --> 00:15:50,080
Are there software tools that you're using or...

273
00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:51,000
Well, that...

274
00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:52,860
Dutch angle alert.

275
00:15:53,700 --> 00:15:54,940
How Dutch can you go?

276
00:15:55,340 --> 00:15:56,660
And he even looks Dutch.

277
00:15:57,840 --> 00:15:59,340
He could have been...

278
00:15:59,340 --> 00:16:01,040
William of Orange or something.

279
00:16:02,820 --> 00:16:04,220
Thank you very much, King...

280
00:16:04,220 --> 00:16:05,920
Is that William of Orange King Billy?

281
00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:08,920
And funnily enough...

282
00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:10,820
I think he had hair like that...

283
00:16:10,820 --> 00:16:11,740
But it was dark.

284
00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:12,280
It was black.

285
00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:14,820
Thank you very much, Gary Mason.

286
00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:16,580
Well, it's kind of like...

287
00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:21,980
This little combat you have with the enemy, so to speak.

288
00:16:22,060 --> 00:16:26,180
And you use the same kind of tools that they're using to try to track them down.

289
00:16:26,380 --> 00:16:27,100
While they're trying...

290
00:16:27,100 --> 00:16:27,960
A little cat and mouse game.

291
00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:29,900
While they're trying to run away from you, you're trying to chase them.

292
00:16:30,180 --> 00:16:31,120
Sometimes vice versa.

293
00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:35,720
If you're trying to sneak up on them, sometimes they turn on you and attack you.

294
00:16:37,420 --> 00:16:42,120
But usually, since you know the computers better, you have hopefully a better knowledge of your systems.

295
00:16:42,460 --> 00:16:44,700
You can kick them off or try to get them out.

296
00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:50,320
Last year, you were involved in releasing a software program on the internet called Satan.

297
00:16:50,660 --> 00:16:51,960
Can you tell me a little bit about that?

298
00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:52,880
Yeah, sure.

299
00:16:53,020 --> 00:16:53,740
Well, Satan was an acronym.

300
00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:54,520
Satan.

301
00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:58,060
Security administrator's tool for analyzing networks.

302
00:16:58,580 --> 00:16:59,560
And there you can see it.

303
00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:01,700
Crazy satanic site.

304
00:17:01,700 --> 00:17:04,540
A security administrator's tool for analyzing networks.

305
00:17:04,820 --> 00:17:09,560
And kind of like the name sounds, it was a tool that you could point at points on the network,

306
00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:12,700
machines on the network, anywhere in the world, actually, from wherever you were.

307
00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:14,800
And you could analyze the security of the systems.

308
00:17:14,980 --> 00:17:20,640
And it could tell you if they were vulnerable, if they could be broken into with a very easy-to-use graphical interface.

309
00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:20,920
Great.

310
00:17:20,980 --> 00:17:24,580
Now, I understand there was a lot of controversy about this because you released it from the internet.

311
00:17:24,580 --> 00:17:27,440
It wasn't just available for network folks.

312
00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:30,020
It was also available, I guess, for hackers as well.

313
00:17:30,020 --> 00:17:30,460
That's right.

314
00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:39,980
Well, my co-author, Vietza Venema, and myself are both very big on education and giving information about security to people.

315
00:17:40,540 --> 00:17:43,540
Part of the problems we had with a lot of the security world is...

316
00:17:43,540 --> 00:17:45,300
What are these lads looking at?

317
00:17:45,300 --> 00:17:54,320
They've hired in extras just to sit in the background and go on the computer and chat to each other and make it look like there's a real cafe ambience going on.

318
00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:58,760
Or in the later episodes, they actually did use a proper cafe and it was very noisy.

319
00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:00,600
There's a lot of noise going on in the background.

320
00:18:01,300 --> 00:18:07,300
Stuart Chaffee, I got deep into Stuart Chaffee lore there during the week and listened to some podcasts that he appeared on.

321
00:18:07,360 --> 00:18:13,700
I really recommend looking at some of the stuff he was giving interviews about the last few years, last five years or ten.

322
00:18:14,060 --> 00:18:16,880
And he actually is into the computer games.

323
00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:19,900
I thought that Chaffee the whole time was pretending.

324
00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:20,940
I thought he was a liar.

325
00:18:21,380 --> 00:18:22,320
But a good liar.

326
00:18:22,620 --> 00:18:24,020
Just to be a good presenter.

327
00:18:24,020 --> 00:18:27,080
To be interested in some of the boring stuff that was going on.

328
00:18:27,340 --> 00:18:30,340
But he's actually into all aspects of tech.

329
00:18:30,980 --> 00:18:31,960
He's a tech head.

330
00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:33,280
He has...

331
00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:35,680
His favourite video game ever was Lemmings.

332
00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:38,300
And he's...

333
00:18:38,300 --> 00:18:38,560
Yeah.

334
00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:41,120
He's mad into the stuff.

335
00:18:41,460 --> 00:18:46,580
So I'm looking forward to seeing what Stew Baby gets out of this episode.

336
00:18:46,740 --> 00:18:50,260
The very first episode, he had to make a good impression.

337
00:18:50,420 --> 00:18:51,580
So let's see how it goes here.

338
00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:53,680
Sister Ghost, thank you very much.

339
00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:55,500
And Rattler Marty, thank you very much.

340
00:18:55,780 --> 00:18:57,880
Tight to their chest, all the secrets.

341
00:18:58,060 --> 00:19:00,960
Because they think if you know about some way of breaking a system...

342
00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:05,180
Loving Dan's hair, what conditioner did he use?

343
00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:07,280
Asks Sister Ghost.

344
00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:09,640
I'm not sure on whether or not we're going to get that answer.

345
00:19:09,940 --> 00:19:10,560
We don't know.

346
00:19:10,620 --> 00:19:14,440
It looks like he's just going to talk about Satan, the programme he's made.

347
00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:20,160
But it's a kind of a flannel shirt unbuttoned to the nines.

348
00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:22,540
And there's a radio mic there as well.

349
00:19:23,340 --> 00:19:24,100
Don't want that on.

350
00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:24,560
Thank you.

351
00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:27,340
So much hype before.

352
00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:31,680
I think everyone was so afraid that they all fixed their machines before that.

353
00:19:31,780 --> 00:19:32,080
Right, right, right.

354
00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:32,660
That's good.

355
00:19:32,820 --> 00:19:33,780
Now what about that hype?

356
00:19:33,820 --> 00:19:35,260
It seems like there was a little bit of an...

357
00:19:35,260 --> 00:19:38,220
Check out the style on Andrew here.

358
00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:45,780
He's rocking the gold chain and bracelet combination pack.

359
00:19:45,940 --> 00:19:53,060
And he's matching this lad's shirt colour here.

360
00:19:53,060 --> 00:20:02,540
And it's tucked in 90s style-y to a belt buttoned up denim jeans.

361
00:20:02,540 --> 00:20:03,980
Let's see how this progresses.

362
00:20:03,980 --> 00:20:07,760
And we've got a couple of spirit gurus in the background there.

363
00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:11,300
Really enjoying the Netcafé ambiance.

364
00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:12,980
Thank you very much, March.

365
00:20:12,980 --> 00:20:14,080
And Leonard's Bar.

366
00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:15,360
I hope you're getting on well.

367
00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:17,280
And Sergeant Derek, thank you very much.

368
00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:20,340
The way that you released this programme.

369
00:20:20,820 --> 00:20:21,140
Well...

370
00:20:21,140 --> 00:20:22,300
I mean, first the name, Satan.

371
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:22,920
Come on.

372
00:20:22,980 --> 00:20:23,820
Yeah, well, I mean...

373
00:20:23,820 --> 00:20:24,320
Come on, man.

374
00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:26,120
With any product, the name is...

375
00:20:26,120 --> 00:20:27,040
Come on, man.

376
00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:27,660
Satan.

377
00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:30,740
You know, two-thirds of what the value of the product is.

378
00:20:30,740 --> 00:20:30,900
Right.

379
00:20:30,900 --> 00:20:31,720
We wanted to have something...

380
00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:36,040
We were a little afraid that if we released it, that people...

381
00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:41,860
And we didn't tell people about it, that people would then blame us for kind of sneaking this hacker tool in the Net.

382
00:20:42,380 --> 00:20:46,060
And it's not like we planned all the hype.

383
00:20:46,180 --> 00:20:48,700
You can't orchestrate this kind of media machine.

384
00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:49,220
Right.

385
00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:51,320
But you did issue a warning in advance.

386
00:20:51,380 --> 00:20:51,940
Is that correct?

387
00:20:52,120 --> 00:20:52,480
That's right.

388
00:20:52,580 --> 00:20:52,780
Okay.

389
00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:57,580
But it was just, you know, a general Netposting saying, look, we're doing this.

390
00:20:57,580 --> 00:20:59,000
We're releasing this tool.

391
00:20:59,080 --> 00:20:59,800
This is what it does.

392
00:20:59,900 --> 00:21:01,200
You know, fairly clear language.

393
00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:02,980
We didn't try to incite people.

394
00:21:03,340 --> 00:21:04,880
But I don't know.

395
00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:09,700
I got started getting some press from some of the major newspapers, getting on the front page.

396
00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:12,140
And all this television started descending on me.

397
00:21:12,220 --> 00:21:15,960
And I could barely move without getting... moving, hitting a camera.

398
00:21:16,220 --> 00:21:17,280
And so...

399
00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:22,760
But I think overall the thing was actually a very positive thing because all the press was a positive thing.

400
00:21:22,900 --> 00:21:23,180
Great.

401
00:21:23,180 --> 00:21:27,660
Because it allowed people to, again, get more awareness of the whole subject.

402
00:21:27,660 --> 00:21:27,660
Right.

403
00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:29,720
What's the next program that you're working on?

404
00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:32,820
Well, it's kind of a technical thing.

405
00:21:32,940 --> 00:21:41,680
But essentially it's a way of managing or devising a policy structure for large-scale networks on Unix systems.

406
00:21:41,980 --> 00:21:43,920
And what kind of a name have you given this one?

407
00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:45,820
Undecided doesn't get it.

408
00:21:46,780 --> 00:21:47,000
Great.

409
00:21:47,360 --> 00:21:47,480
Great.

410
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:49,500
It won't be anything quite as flashy, though.

411
00:21:49,580 --> 00:21:50,880
I think I've learned my lesson.

412
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:51,680
So...

413
00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:51,960
Okay.

414
00:21:52,180 --> 00:21:52,440
Great.

415
00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:53,120
Thanks.

416
00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:54,600
Okay.

417
00:21:54,860 --> 00:21:55,120
Okay.

418
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:56,500
Thanks.

419
00:21:58,240 --> 00:21:59,400
I've learned my lesson.

420
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:00,480
Okay.

421
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:01,000
Great.

422
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:01,980
Well, thanks.

423
00:22:04,980 --> 00:22:05,980
Thank you.

424
00:22:05,980 --> 00:22:06,480
Thank you.

425
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:06,980
Thank you.

426
00:22:06,980 --> 00:22:06,980
Thank you.

427
00:22:06,980 --> 00:22:06,980
Thank you.

428
00:22:06,980 --> 00:22:06,980
Thank you.

429
00:22:06,980 --> 00:22:15,920
Featured URLs, SW downloads, viewer feedback, cyber blast help, and TV modem info.

430
00:22:18,660 --> 00:22:22,880
Greetings from the loft. Current stock tip in the hacker community seems to be dealing with security dynamics of Massachusetts.

431
00:22:23,340 --> 00:22:30,640
The makers of SecureID scrambled to security problems in their one-time password token cards were presented to the net in the form of a white paper from ftp.secnet.com.

432
00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:35,100
Secnet.com. Let's hear that again. That sounded pretty good to me.

433
00:22:35,100 --> 00:22:44,700
The stock tip. .secnet.com. For security dynamic.

434
00:22:51,900 --> 00:23:01,100
NASDAQ ticker SDTI seems to be sell short. With any loss. It's really, it's like an addiction. Thank you very much, Shen Muesli, for your kind, heart and generous tip.

435
00:23:01,100 --> 00:23:10,700
And none other than Peter Wood Mack. I hope you're doing well. I hope you're doing well. Peter Mudwhack. Or Wood Mack, sorry. I hope you're doing well.

436
00:23:10,700 --> 00:23:17,900
They will fix their problems in their product and yet again will have a case of technology progressing. Peter Mudwhack. Due to hackers and security professionals worldwide.

437
00:23:17,900 --> 00:23:27,500
Peter Mudwhack. Wow. What a read. What a, it was really natural. Didn't really sound like it was forced or rushed in any shape or form.

438
00:23:27,500 --> 00:23:31,500
And also the, the intonation on secnet.com.

439
00:23:31,500 --> 00:23:39,100
White paper from FTP.secnet.com. The stock tip for security dynamics, NASDAQ ticker SDTI seems to be sell short.

440
00:23:39,100 --> 00:23:41,100
With any luck, they will fix their problems in their product.

441
00:23:41,100 --> 00:23:45,100
And yet again, we'll have a case of technology progressing due to hackers and security professionals worldwide.

442
00:23:45,100 --> 00:23:56,700
So Aleph, tell me what kind of information. Under pressure there at the end, because you could see him look towards the person at the camera who'd probably made him do it 15 times. Like, can you just do it faster?

443
00:23:56,700 --> 00:24:12,700
Security professionals worldwide. See that look, that little move there, that kind of really stressed out. Why? Stressed as fuck. So Aleph, tell me what kind of information can we find at underground.org?

444
00:24:12,700 --> 00:24:42,600
On the ground you can find security papers, security tools. Check out the posture on this situation right here. It's a leather jacket. It's a ponytail. A superb ponytail. You can find security papers, security tools. It's either another satanic emblem. I'm not sure if it's a star. I'm not sure if it's a star of David or is it a star of Satan? Find security papers.

445
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:55,600
Security papers. What the hell's going on here with this fella with his security papers, huh? What the hell's going on with this fella with his security papers, huh?

446
00:24:55,600 --> 00:25:03,880
Tonight at 9 on Dispatches, Security Papers.

447
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:16,140
Security tools, database of security vulnerabilities, links to other security web pages, other hacker

448
00:25:16,140 --> 00:25:22,600
home pages. Anguished Panda, thank you very much. Calendar of security events, information

449
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:28,160
about hacker conferences, some graphics and pictures, so it's quite a large amount of information.

450
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,760
So it sounds like there's almost two worlds that you're playing to, that security side.

451
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:37,300
Jane Withers Strand is only coming on now. I don't know why. It was a late, it was a late buzz.

452
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:42,460
I can kind of imagine maybe Stew Baby is in the background at the director's chair, just

453
00:25:42,460 --> 00:25:48,220
going over. He's making the program. He's in the program. He's also a rigorous, hard-headed

454
00:25:48,220 --> 00:25:53,560
producer and director. He's in there and he's making sure that Withers's name is on that

455
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:57,220
thing. Well, this fella is just doing a bit of work. There's a fella that they've brought

456
00:25:57,220 --> 00:25:59,960
in to service the coffee machine.

457
00:25:59,960 --> 00:26:05,340
So I'm wondering whether or not that's some kind of... Was that planned or is he an extra?

458
00:26:05,340 --> 00:26:09,340
It sounds like there's almost two worlds that you're playing to, that security side and then

459
00:26:09,340 --> 00:26:17,340
the hacker underground. Yeah, there's a bit of both. There is a need for that. There needs to be an exchange of information.

460
00:26:17,340 --> 00:26:22,720
Aleph underscore one.

461
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:33,720
In both. And really, the information is neutral. You know, it can either be used for hacking or it can be used for securing. All it is is information.

462
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:43,100
He's got the hands in the pockets of the leather jacket and he's kind of... When he's moving to make a gesture with the hand, the jacket moves with the hand.

463
00:26:43,100 --> 00:26:44,100
Crazy bit of business.

464
00:26:44,100 --> 00:26:44,480
So...

465
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:51,480
For hacking or it can be used for securing. All it is is information. So why did you create underground.org?

466
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:51,480
What...

467
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:51,480
What...

468
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:54,480
Garnubius, thank you very much.

469
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:56,720
It started as my personal homepage.

470
00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:01,980
Found a couple of interesting sites on the net I wanted to keep track of that were useful to me.

471
00:27:01,980 --> 00:27:04,720
I found some good tools that I liked.

472
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,040
And people started coming to check my page.

473
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:10,320
And they would send me emails saying how useful it was to them.

474
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:12,640
And over time, it kept growing and growing until what it is today.

475
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:15,180
And it's been four years since then.

476
00:27:15,180 --> 00:27:16,020
So it's pretty exciting.

477
00:27:16,020 --> 00:27:18,780
In fact, I checked out some of the places in underground.org.

478
00:27:18,780 --> 00:27:24,320
And there were some discussions and stories in the newspapers about various hackers and all of the different things that they did.

479
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:32,060
And thinking about that, I mean, recently we had that break in with the Swedish hackers getting into the CIA web page and making some pretty significant changes.

480
00:27:32,060 --> 00:27:34,180
I wonder, were these the guys that did Pirate Bay?

481
00:27:34,180 --> 00:27:35,560
Thank you very much for the tip there.

482
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:36,820
Left the wallet at your maz.

483
00:27:36,820 --> 00:27:37,780
I hope you're hitting on well.

484
00:27:37,780 --> 00:27:40,140
Welcome to the Central Stupidity Agency.

485
00:27:40,140 --> 00:27:43,180
Wow, they punked the CIA with this.

486
00:27:43,300 --> 00:27:46,140
This is what you got when you got to the bloody CIA page.

487
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:49,000
Welcome to the CSA Stupid Agency.

488
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,100
And we'd like you to join some web link or something.

489
00:27:53,300 --> 00:27:54,960
And then stop lying, bull.

490
00:27:55,620 --> 00:27:56,480
Don't know what this is.

491
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:57,640
Don't know what they're on about there.

492
00:27:57,700 --> 00:27:58,220
To that page.

493
00:27:58,360 --> 00:28:03,380
And one of the things that they did, Aleph, was put a link to your homepage, underground.org.

494
00:28:03,820 --> 00:28:04,280
Any idea?

495
00:28:04,700 --> 00:28:06,580
Your man's, he started cleaning now.

496
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:08,420
I think he's an extra.

497
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:09,560
He's not really doing anything.

498
00:28:09,660 --> 00:28:12,360
It looks like he was fixing before and now he's grabbed a cloth.

499
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:14,700
I think Stu might have said just grab anything.

500
00:28:14,700 --> 00:28:15,220
Why they would have done that?

501
00:28:15,220 --> 00:28:22,860
Well, I think if you ask anybody on the net where could I find information about security,

502
00:28:23,580 --> 00:28:24,960
they'll point you to all websites.

503
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:26,300
And probably one of them would be underground.

504
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:27,880
So I think it was just a statement.

505
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:29,820
They broke into the CIA's website.

506
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:32,340
They showed them they had no security.

507
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:33,180
Right.

508
00:28:33,180 --> 00:28:36,740
And they're showing them, well, you know, go here to learn something about security.

509
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,780
So you're sure that, you know, you didn't have anything to do with that CIA stuff?

510
00:28:40,780 --> 00:28:41,840
No, I'm sure of it.

511
00:28:41,940 --> 00:28:42,140
Yes.

512
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:43,000
I will remember.

513
00:28:43,180 --> 00:28:43,600
Oh, okay.

514
00:28:43,680 --> 00:29:03,480
So now I think 10 of those is enough.

515
00:29:03,780 --> 00:29:07,160
Now, another thing in the Department of Justice had the same thing happened to them.

516
00:29:07,260 --> 00:29:08,420
They got broken into.

517
00:29:08,700 --> 00:29:09,300
Jesus Christ.

518
00:29:09,460 --> 00:29:10,380
You get the video, Ben.

519
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:11,440
I don't want to get taken down.

520
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:12,300
These websites are pretty vulnerable.

521
00:29:12,780 --> 00:29:13,000
Yeah.

522
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:13,660
Yeah.

523
00:29:13,660 --> 00:29:14,940
Sorry about that.

524
00:29:15,540 --> 00:29:19,740
Hopefully the algorithm doesn't take this video down for that, but it probably will.

525
00:29:19,900 --> 00:29:22,000
So, I mean, I'm not sure what's going to happen with that.

526
00:29:22,060 --> 00:29:27,240
But those just need to distance myself from the iconography that was just displayed on the screen there, guys.

527
00:29:28,820 --> 00:29:34,100
Sometimes you play in a video and pictures of Hitler and swastikas come up.

528
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,760
And, you know, you can't control it because you didn't know it was going to happen.

529
00:29:38,060 --> 00:29:40,400
A lot of people are actually, you know, scared.

530
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:41,660
It's like they're the one doing well.

531
00:29:41,820 --> 00:29:44,940
You know, information that the CIA has in their computer.

532
00:29:45,740 --> 00:29:53,520
I'd want to go back to see it, but there was because there was a picture, I think that there was something going on with Rachel from Friends there as well.

533
00:29:53,580 --> 00:29:55,340
It's not going to be able to break in.

534
00:29:55,420 --> 00:29:56,160
People still on them.

535
00:29:56,540 --> 00:30:00,700
But the CIA has their own network separate of the Internet, which is not connected to the Internet.

536
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:07,580
You would need to get into a dial-up server or actually physically go into their offices and use one of their computers to do all that kind of information.

537
00:30:08,060 --> 00:30:09,720
But it's a different picture for all this.

538
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:10,640
Very much monkey.

539
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:10,720
Very much monkey.

540
00:30:11,220 --> 00:30:13,940
Spanker, 90-90 for the one-euro tip.

541
00:30:13,940 --> 00:30:15,880
Protecting their network is a firewall.

542
00:30:16,540 --> 00:30:18,620
And a firewall is a pretty static thing.

543
00:30:18,740 --> 00:30:20,700
You buy it, you install it, and you leave it there.

544
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:27,320
And a month from now or a year from now, a new security problem may arise that the firewall vendor maybe didn't think about.

545
00:30:27,780 --> 00:30:29,620
And maybe there are people in the world then.

546
00:30:29,820 --> 00:30:32,000
So the fear is not, you know, a make-believe.

547
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,840
There really is a serious issue in terms of being able to get through the firewalls.

548
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:36,140
Yes, it's also not really, you know.

549
00:30:36,140 --> 00:30:36,680
He's gone from the background.

550
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:37,500
Now he's stopped.

551
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:39,860
The fellow in the background who was fixing the coffee is gone.

552
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:46,280
Thanks very much, Paul Schke, 1983, who says, strong sexual hacker energy coming out of this guy.

553
00:30:46,300 --> 00:30:47,840
You don't have to be paranoid about it.

554
00:30:48,180 --> 00:30:50,560
There's nothing in life that is 100% in security.

555
00:30:50,580 --> 00:30:51,900
I think it is a star, David.

556
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:54,440
Security is obviously not one of them.

557
00:30:55,580 --> 00:30:56,120
But it's something...

558
00:30:56,120 --> 00:31:01,080
Because isn't the devil star, isn't that like a...

559
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:01,920
That has...

560
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:05,600
It doesn't have a five pentagram.

561
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:07,560
That evolves and it's something that you have to keep up with.

562
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:10,940
You know, you cannot just go up and secure a machine and say, oh, there.

563
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:12,560
He'll be secure in, you know, a year.

564
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:16,260
And you should know because you were one of the hackers getting into that place.

565
00:31:16,260 --> 00:31:17,860
Yes, we experimented for a while.

566
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:18,840
So what do you think?

567
00:31:18,900 --> 00:31:19,760
What's the psychology...

568
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:22,480
The man is coming back.

569
00:31:22,740 --> 00:31:25,600
This little humble kind of brag here.

570
00:31:25,820 --> 00:31:26,820
Humble brag alert.

571
00:31:26,940 --> 00:31:28,560
Getting into that place.

572
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:30,060
Yes, we experimented for a while.

573
00:31:33,820 --> 00:31:34,660
So what do you think?

574
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:36,040
What's the psychology behind it?

575
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:37,740
I mean, is it really all about freedom?

576
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,220
Now he's just moving cups around.

577
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:40,500
Look.

578
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:42,260
All right.

579
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:43,620
Okay, go back in there.

580
00:31:43,660 --> 00:31:44,060
All right.

581
00:31:44,580 --> 00:31:46,080
But there's nothing else to do.

582
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:47,760
I pretended to clean the machine.

583
00:31:47,900 --> 00:31:48,820
I pretended to fix it.

584
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:49,380
All right.

585
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:55,420
Well, bring some cups back in there and start putting Paula Styrene cups down now.

586
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:56,380
Okay.

587
00:31:56,500 --> 00:31:57,020
Okay, Stu.

588
00:31:57,140 --> 00:31:58,000
Moving from...

589
00:31:58,000 --> 00:31:58,720
You got it, Stu.

590
00:32:00,220 --> 00:32:01,460
Sorsha, thank you very much.

591
00:32:01,460 --> 00:32:04,240
Being able to show that there's no security out there.

592
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:06,800
That's a bit of everything.

593
00:32:07,220 --> 00:32:07,660
Bravado.

594
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:10,080
It's a bit of showing your peers that you can do it.

595
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:11,620
It's obviously learning.

596
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:15,300
So just a bit of everything.

597
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,340
Is it an innocent game or is it, you know, is it serious business?

598
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:20,640
It starts as an innocent game.

599
00:32:22,220 --> 00:32:23,040
Jesus Christ.

600
00:32:23,100 --> 00:32:23,720
Where's this going?

601
00:32:23,860 --> 00:32:25,340
Starts as an innocent game.

602
00:32:25,900 --> 00:32:27,600
And then gets what dark does it?

603
00:32:27,700 --> 00:32:29,500
Some people may go the wrong way.

604
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:30,440
Oh.

605
00:32:34,580 --> 00:32:35,500
End up in jail.

606
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:37,480
Aleph 1.

607
00:32:37,580 --> 00:32:38,380
Thank you very much.

608
00:32:38,460 --> 00:32:39,120
Some other people.

609
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:40,880
And which is most of the people I know.

610
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:44,740
There is a Resident Evil announcement stream at 11 p.m.

611
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:45,440
Okay.

612
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:46,360
Thanks for letting me know.

613
00:32:46,420 --> 00:32:47,340
We might check that out.

614
00:32:47,740 --> 00:32:48,760
I think there was a Silent Hill.

615
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:49,000
Oh yeah.

616
00:32:49,100 --> 00:32:51,140
They're redoing Silent Hill 2.

617
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:55,720
So the Resident Evil one will probably be redoing Resident Evil 5.

618
00:32:55,820 --> 00:32:57,840
Because I know they're doing Resident Evil 4.

619
00:32:58,020 --> 00:32:58,940
It's nearly done.

620
00:32:59,220 --> 00:32:59,920
Thank you very much.

621
00:32:59,980 --> 00:33:01,060
You hammered your hacker.

622
00:33:01,060 --> 00:33:05,080
Eventually end up with jobs and corporations doing the same thing they did before.

623
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:06,140
Just getting paid for doing it.

624
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:07,760
So something like what you're doing now.

625
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:08,020
Exactly.

626
00:33:08,020 --> 00:33:10,580
I mean basically talking about all those security things.

627
00:33:10,740 --> 00:33:11,480
And there's another...

628
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:18,160
That has been buffed and polished and wiped to within an inch of its life.

629
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:19,200
...place at that website.

630
00:33:19,340 --> 00:33:20,280
Something called Bug Track.

631
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:21,200
Can you tell me a little bit about that?

632
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:23,840
Bug Track is a security mailing list I'm maintaining.

633
00:33:24,300 --> 00:33:26,300
It's one of the largest security mailing lists on the net.

634
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:28,120
There's probably a few thousand subscribers.

635
00:33:28,340 --> 00:33:30,160
I want to get onto that Bug Track.

636
00:33:30,940 --> 00:33:33,400
We have a policy of full disclosure.

637
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,060
Which means when a new security vulnerability is discovered.

638
00:33:37,260 --> 00:33:39,100
We usually publish full details about it.

639
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:44,520
And the reason we do this is because normally when organizations such as CERT.

640
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:47,980
Which is federally funded to do such a thing.

641
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:48,620
CERT.

642
00:33:48,620 --> 00:33:50,320
Publish advisors and security vulnerabilities.

643
00:33:51,380 --> 00:33:54,240
They do it a very long time after they've been told about security.

644
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:54,880
Wow.

645
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:55,880
A very...

646
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:56,060
Sorry.

647
00:33:56,140 --> 00:33:56,700
I don't want to...

648
00:33:56,700 --> 00:33:57,340
Security vulnerabilities.

649
00:33:57,540 --> 00:33:58,080
A bit rude.

650
00:33:58,220 --> 00:33:59,880
Just take the piss out of someone who's...

651
00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:00,920
I know you meant to say very.

652
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:04,780
I think it's just kind of when you go further east of Europe.

653
00:34:04,940 --> 00:34:07,020
Maybe into the Scandinavian regions.

654
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:09,140
A V becomes a B.

655
00:34:09,260 --> 00:34:09,720
Like a berry.

656
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:10,340
Or a wary.

657
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:11,040
Or a berry.

658
00:34:11,500 --> 00:34:12,560
But it's a berry nice.

659
00:34:12,620 --> 00:34:13,100
He says, I think.

660
00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:16,860
They do it a very long time after they've been told about security problem.

661
00:34:17,940 --> 00:34:20,040
So, for example, somebody would go up to CERT and...

662
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:20,480
Whatever.

663
00:34:20,700 --> 00:34:22,080
It's a tight goatee.

664
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:23,960
You know, tell them we found a bug.

665
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:25,500
CERT will talk to the vendors.

666
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:26,200
And...

667
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:27,920
Found a bug.

668
00:34:28,860 --> 00:34:29,980
We talked to the vendors.

669
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:31,600
Thanks very much, Jerry Hutch.

670
00:34:31,820 --> 00:34:35,600
And you hammered your hackers and LF1 for the tip there.

671
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:38,500
Somebody would go up to CERT and, you know, tell them we found a bug.

672
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:40,040
CERT will talk to the vendors.

673
00:34:40,540 --> 00:34:41,260
And they'll learn those.

674
00:34:41,340 --> 00:34:41,840
We know about it.

675
00:34:41,860 --> 00:34:44,320
But they'll take several months to publish a solution to the problem.

676
00:34:44,860 --> 00:34:45,620
And by...

677
00:34:45,620 --> 00:34:46,480
They find a bug.

678
00:34:46,700 --> 00:34:47,480
Talk to the vendors.

679
00:34:47,780 --> 00:34:49,040
And the vendors will know about it.

680
00:34:49,100 --> 00:34:49,860
This time.

681
00:34:50,240 --> 00:34:51,000
The probability is that hackers know about it.

682
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:51,980
Just saying what he said.

683
00:34:52,240 --> 00:34:53,120
Just saying what he said.

684
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:54,580
Out there breaking into machines.

685
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:58,420
So BugTrack is kind of almost pushing the vendors to fix this problem.

686
00:34:58,620 --> 00:35:00,860
By putting fear on their heart.

687
00:35:00,860 --> 00:35:01,180
Right.

688
00:35:01,180 --> 00:35:01,980
We can make them publish.

689
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:03,580
But then the hackers are going to BugTrack.

690
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:07,440
A little bit too much glee in that sentiment there.

691
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:08,780
Put fear in their heart.

692
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:10,500
And we will publish.

693
00:35:11,460 --> 00:35:12,860
Let's have a little look at that again there.

694
00:35:16,300 --> 00:35:17,780
By putting fear on their heart.

695
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:18,160
Right.

696
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:18,940
We can make them publish.

697
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:20,820
But then the hackers are going to BugTrack too.

698
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:22,880
Putting fear on their heart.

699
00:35:23,100 --> 00:35:23,200
Right.

700
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:24,040
We can make them publish.

701
00:35:24,060 --> 00:35:25,980
But then the hackers are going to BugTrack, Master.

702
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:27,980
By putting fear on their heart.

703
00:35:28,180 --> 00:35:28,380
Right.

704
00:35:28,380 --> 00:35:29,120
We can make them publish.

705
00:35:29,140 --> 00:35:30,880
But then the hackers are going to BugTrack, Master.

706
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,060
By putting fear on their heart.

707
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:33,420
Right.

708
00:35:33,420 --> 00:35:34,200
We can make them publish.

709
00:35:34,340 --> 00:35:36,100
But then the hackers are going to BugTrack too.

710
00:35:36,240 --> 00:35:38,280
So I mean, they're finding out some of those problems.

711
00:35:38,460 --> 00:35:40,420
And really even pushing the security break.

712
00:35:40,420 --> 00:35:40,600
Yes.

713
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:41,120
It is a bit farther.

714
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:42,240
It is a trade-off.

715
00:35:43,380 --> 00:35:49,680
You trade off a bit of that security to have independents come up with patches as fast as possible.

716
00:35:50,060 --> 00:35:54,760
But if you think about it, most likely the most elite hackers already had the security problems.

717
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:56,880
So they were already there before you guys even got there.

718
00:35:57,260 --> 00:35:58,300
So give me some ideas.

719
00:35:58,300 --> 00:36:03,840
If I wanted to get information about hacker psychology or, you know, what being a hacker would be all about.

720
00:36:03,900 --> 00:36:06,140
Or let's say I wanted to understand a little bit more about security.

721
00:36:06,260 --> 00:36:07,280
Where are some websites that you'd recommend us?

722
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:09,580
I would check something like 2600.com.

723
00:36:09,780 --> 00:36:10,300
Wow.

724
00:36:10,300 --> 00:36:12,060
That looks like the real deal.

725
00:36:12,060 --> 00:36:13,440
2600.com.

726
00:36:13,500 --> 00:36:14,620
The hacker quart.

727
00:36:15,260 --> 00:36:15,740
Quart.

728
00:36:15,860 --> 00:36:16,580
Now hacked.

729
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:19,000
You have now been hacked.

730
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:22,080
Quasi-quarting.

731
00:36:22,300 --> 00:36:23,520
Quasi-quarting.

732
00:36:23,740 --> 00:36:25,380
You have now been hacked.

733
00:36:26,380 --> 00:36:27,880
And there's info.

734
00:36:28,660 --> 00:36:29,680
There is covers.

735
00:36:30,380 --> 00:36:31,380
There's payphones.

736
00:36:31,500 --> 00:36:32,340
There's contents.

737
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:34,680
Does this website still exist?

738
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:37,000
The website of a hacker magazine.

739
00:36:37,180 --> 00:36:38,980
I would check things like root.org.

740
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:40,740
Which is...

741
00:36:40,740 --> 00:36:42,220
Root members.

742
00:36:42,700 --> 00:36:43,820
Some of the members there.

743
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:44,720
Ice 9.

744
00:36:46,420 --> 00:36:48,340
And can't really...

745
00:36:48,340 --> 00:36:48,560
X.

746
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:49,500
Just someone called X.

747
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:52,460
Can't see what the rest of those words are.

748
00:36:52,580 --> 00:36:54,420
It's just too low.

749
00:36:54,420 --> 00:36:56,360
I lose need of a computer hacker.

750
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:57,460
Great.

751
00:36:57,700 --> 00:36:58,660
If you wanted to...

752
00:36:58,660 --> 00:37:00,080
Great.

753
00:37:00,660 --> 00:37:05,180
Jane's struggling to maintain an air of impression here.

754
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,200
Which is lose need of computer hackers.

755
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:09,100
Great.

756
00:37:09,300 --> 00:37:11,980
If you wanted to just learn more about general security,

757
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:13,360
I would check something like coast.

758
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:14,480
Jane.

759
00:37:14,660 --> 00:37:17,700
That Jane expression is how I feel about this interview.

760
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:19,080
It needs to end now.

761
00:37:19,240 --> 00:37:19,500
Great.

762
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:22,380
If you wanted to just learn more about general security,

763
00:37:22,380 --> 00:37:23,740
I would check something like coast.

764
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:26,740
the University of Purdue.

765
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:28,680
They have a security department there.

766
00:37:28,740 --> 00:37:29,520
They do a lot of research.

767
00:37:29,700 --> 00:37:32,200
They keep a large archive of security tools and papers.

768
00:37:32,860 --> 00:37:34,780
I would check things like cert.

769
00:37:35,240 --> 00:37:35,840
Thanks a lot.

770
00:37:35,900 --> 00:37:37,860
I really appreciate spending the time

771
00:37:37,860 --> 00:37:39,060
and getting a little bit more information

772
00:37:39,060 --> 00:37:41,500
about the background on security and hacking.

773
00:37:41,620 --> 00:37:41,900
No problem.

774
00:37:42,620 --> 00:37:43,620
Thank you.

775
00:37:43,620 --> 00:37:43,620
Thank you.

776
00:37:43,620 --> 00:37:43,620
No problem.

777
00:37:43,620 --> 00:37:44,620
Thank you.

778
00:37:44,620 --> 00:37:46,280
Look at the way they're looking at each other.

779
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:47,580
It's like a cert.

780
00:37:47,580 --> 00:37:48,620
Thanks a lot.

781
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:50,640
I really appreciate spending the time

782
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:51,840
and getting a little bit more information

783
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:54,280
about the background on security and hacking.

784
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:54,720
No problem.

785
00:37:54,720 --> 00:37:55,660
Thank you.

786
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:00,500
Look at the little handshake.

787
00:38:00,500 --> 00:38:01,560
On tonight's Cyber Blast,

788
00:38:01,620 --> 00:38:03,360
we're going to send you four cool programs.

789
00:38:03,500 --> 00:38:04,800
Look at this cool customer.

790
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:05,320
That's right.

791
00:38:05,380 --> 00:38:07,800
Our Cyber Blast is dumping data so fast

792
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:10,000
that we can send you four complete programs

793
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:11,300
in less than two minutes.

794
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:12,160
No way.

795
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:13,200
And what you're seeing over here

796
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:15,840
is the actual data coming into your computer right now.

797
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:16,460
No way.

798
00:38:16,460 --> 00:38:18,320
We're sending you these programs in the TV signal

799
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:19,960
at about two megabytes per minute.

800
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:20,540
No way.

801
00:38:20,540 --> 00:38:21,720
If you don't have a TV modem,

802
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:23,900
you can also get these files off of our website

803
00:38:23,900 --> 00:38:25,480
on your regular telephone modem.

804
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:25,980
What file?

805
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:27,400
It's just static.

806
00:38:27,660 --> 00:38:29,100
It's just static on a screen.

807
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:29,800
There's nothing happening.

808
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:30,580
Ice 9.

809
00:38:30,720 --> 00:38:31,560
Thank you very much.

810
00:38:31,900 --> 00:38:32,980
That way, we'll take you at least

811
00:38:32,980 --> 00:38:34,380
a half an hour of connection time.

812
00:38:34,740 --> 00:38:36,920
But with our super fast CyberCast technology,

813
00:38:37,240 --> 00:38:39,580
we're able to do this in less than two minutes.

814
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:41,660
Now, let me tell you what we're sending you.

815
00:38:42,020 --> 00:38:42,960
First of all, do you think...

816
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:45,400
Please just tell me what's going on first and foremost,

817
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:46,920
because I don't know what's going on.

818
00:38:47,140 --> 00:38:47,760
Do you think you're a hacker?

819
00:38:48,060 --> 00:38:50,320
We're downloading to you the official hacker test.

820
00:38:50,580 --> 00:38:51,700
Do you think you're a hacker?

821
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:53,960
Answer the questions and the program will tell you

822
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:55,000
whether or not you have a right

823
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:56,040
to call yourself a hacker.

824
00:38:56,740 --> 00:38:58,080
Now, if you're worried about other hackers,

825
00:38:58,340 --> 00:38:59,860
we're also sending you the latest version

826
00:38:59,860 --> 00:39:01,520
of Virus Scanner from McAfee.

827
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,740
It's been updated to check for 257 new viruses,

828
00:39:05,100 --> 00:39:06,900
which have been added since the previous version

829
00:39:06,900 --> 00:39:07,400
of the program.

830
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:10,260
Next, we're going to let you hack away at a golf ball.

831
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:12,140
We're downloading Golf Score Analyst...

832
00:39:12,140 --> 00:39:13,380
I want to hack away.

833
00:39:13,820 --> 00:39:15,560
I want to hack away.

834
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:16,980
Yeah!

835
00:39:17,980 --> 00:39:19,800
It's a great program for keeping track

836
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:20,820
of all your golf stats

837
00:39:20,820 --> 00:39:23,300
and analyzing your strengths and weaknesses.

838
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:25,280
Finally, just for fun,

839
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:27,460
we're sending you screen pics by Galtware.

840
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:28,820
This cool utility lets you easily...

841
00:39:28,820 --> 00:39:30,820
Don't send me any pics, please.

842
00:39:30,820 --> 00:39:33,260
...turn any graphics file or files in any format

843
00:39:33,260 --> 00:39:34,360
into a screensaver.

844
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:35,600
Cyberblast!

845
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:37,080
Remember, we're sending all four programs to you

846
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:38,100
in under two minutes.

847
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:38,840
What are you all about?

848
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:40,160
To download these files this fast,

849
00:39:40,220 --> 00:39:41,400
you do need a TV modem.

850
00:39:41,900 --> 00:39:44,560
If you need information on how to use or find a TV modem,

851
00:39:44,860 --> 00:39:47,460
just check out the Internet Cafe section of our website

852
00:39:47,460 --> 00:39:50,120
at www.pctv.com.

853
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:50,680
The cool cap situation there.

854
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:53,440
Thank you very, very much, T-Magic.

855
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:55,620
I want to hack away.

856
00:39:55,940 --> 00:39:57,660
I want to hack away.

857
00:39:58,660 --> 00:40:00,780
I want to hack away.

858
00:40:00,980 --> 00:40:03,000
I want to hack away.

859
00:40:03,500 --> 00:40:03,740
Yeah!

860
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:05,380
Thank you very much, sir.

861
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:07,280
Spum, Dingo, and T-Magic.

862
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:09,460
I just want to get a baseball cap there

863
00:40:09,460 --> 00:40:12,140
so I can really get into the groove there for one moment.

864
00:40:12,220 --> 00:40:14,120
I'm back in one moment with a baseball cap on

865
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:15,700
that's going to be hanging out.

866
00:40:15,780 --> 00:40:17,640
She's going to be nestled on top of my head

867
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:18,440
like that guy there.

868
00:40:18,660 --> 00:40:20,860
You don't tend to think about the hip-hop culture.

869
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:24,260
All about rap music and the hip-hop scene.

870
00:40:25,720 --> 00:40:27,140
I don't travel in those circles.

871
00:40:27,240 --> 00:40:28,400
I don't get to talk to those guys.

872
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:31,700
But I did get to talk to them in this chat room.

873
00:40:32,420 --> 00:40:33,940
Hip-hop chat room I went into.

874
00:40:34,900 --> 00:40:36,560
I don't know a lot about the hip-hop scene.

875
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:38,500
You really are. I do now.

876
00:40:39,260 --> 00:40:40,620
I don't travel in those circles.

877
00:40:40,740 --> 00:40:41,880
I don't get to talk to those guys.

878
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:45,300
Man, I learned a lot about what really goes on in that world.

879
00:40:45,300 --> 00:40:47,280
Fat 32.

880
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:50,960
Fat 32.

881
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:51,040
Fat 32.

882
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:54,740
Fat 32.

883
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:55,280
Fat 32.

884
00:40:58,280 --> 00:40:59,240
Fat 32.

885
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:02,960
Fat 32.

886
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:22,200
Cocks, cocks, teeny, cocks, cocks, teeny, teeny, cocks, cocks, cocks, teeny, cocks, cocks, cocks, teeny, cocks, cocks, cocks, teeny, cocks, cocks, teeny, cocks, cocks.

887
00:41:23,220 --> 00:41:26,600
Now, that's going to be, that'll do actually.

888
00:41:26,820 --> 00:41:30,860
This is the hat that Tommy brought back for me from Berlin.

889
00:41:31,140 --> 00:41:33,900
And it even has the tag still on it as well.

890
00:41:33,940 --> 00:41:35,100
That's great stuff altogether.

891
00:41:35,860 --> 00:41:38,320
But he did say, Tom, are you there, Tom?

892
00:41:38,740 --> 00:41:41,800
Oh, you know what you know, it's a great hat, it's lovely.

893
00:41:42,460 --> 00:41:48,020
And I hope you realize how much money went on that hat.

894
00:41:48,180 --> 00:41:51,460
Cocks, cocks, cocks, teeny, cocks, cocks, teeny, teeny, cocks.

895
00:41:51,900 --> 00:41:57,320
How much did you throw on this absolute beautiful hat?

896
00:41:59,040 --> 00:41:59,980
21 euro.

897
00:42:00,300 --> 00:42:02,960
And that was on top of the chips and the drink.

898
00:42:03,500 --> 00:42:03,980
What?

899
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:05,560
21 euro.

900
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:08,940
And that was on top of the chips and the drink.

901
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:10,940
And how much were the chips and the drink?

902
00:42:12,180 --> 00:42:14,660
I can't remember, but 21 euro for a hat.

903
00:42:14,720 --> 00:42:15,460
Are you fucking joking?

904
00:42:16,720 --> 00:42:17,440
Great stuff.

905
00:42:17,540 --> 00:42:18,960
Thanks very much, Tommy Schlug there.

906
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:19,800
Analyst.

907
00:42:21,420 --> 00:42:22,160
Not an analyst.

908
00:42:22,420 --> 00:42:23,820
Pure analysis.

909
00:42:24,580 --> 00:42:26,100
No analyzation.

910
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:27,280
Good luck.

911
00:42:28,620 --> 00:42:29,360
Thanks, Tom.

912
00:42:30,140 --> 00:42:31,480
So I've got the hat on.

913
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:34,920
Let's see what this guy is going to be slinging us now.

914
00:42:35,020 --> 00:42:35,280
Come.

915
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:36,980
TV modem uses...

916
00:42:36,980 --> 00:42:37,920
Thanks very much, SK.

917
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:42,760
...is the broad bandwidth of the television signal rather than the limited capacity of a phone line.

918
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:45,580
That's how we're able to send you so much data so quickly.

919
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:49,320
In fact, we're sending this to you at about one megabyte every 30 seconds.

920
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:50,120
Fucking hell.

921
00:42:50,180 --> 00:42:52,400
So it looks like the download is just about complete.

922
00:42:52,580 --> 00:42:52,920
Have fun.

923
00:42:52,980 --> 00:42:54,780
Nearly lost the run of the lines.

924
00:42:55,380 --> 00:42:57,900
Well, looks like the download.

925
00:42:58,440 --> 00:42:59,940
Megabyte every 30 seconds.

926
00:43:00,500 --> 00:43:03,060
So it looks like the download is just about complete.

927
00:43:03,180 --> 00:43:04,620
Have fun with your four new programs.

928
00:43:05,020 --> 00:43:07,080
Remember, if you need more information, check out our web.

929
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:07,400
So hang on.

930
00:43:07,620 --> 00:43:12,760
This is a TV show, but they fucking send files to you while you're watching the show.

931
00:43:13,180 --> 00:43:14,040
How does that happen?

932
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:16,980
And I've got four new downloads or something.

933
00:43:16,980 --> 00:43:17,320
...website.

934
00:43:17,460 --> 00:43:20,200
It's www.pctv.com.

935
00:43:20,700 --> 00:43:23,180
That wraps up this Cyber Blast of the Internet Cafe.

936
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:24,620
I'm Giles Bateman.

937
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:29,020
You guys are members of the Cult of the Dead Cow.

938
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:30,400
Kind of a pretty select group.

939
00:43:30,540 --> 00:43:30,920
There's a bunch of...

940
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:32,320
Cult of the Dead Cow, Vermana.

941
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:33,980
Thanks very much, Vermana.

942
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:35,100
I hope you're doing well.

943
00:43:35,380 --> 00:43:38,020
And this is the Cult of the Dead Cow.

944
00:43:38,180 --> 00:43:39,500
They're drinking Coca-Cola.

945
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:42,960
And what's going on?

946
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:43,260
I don't know.

947
00:43:43,340 --> 00:43:47,280
There's another funky hat situation there.

948
00:43:48,420 --> 00:43:53,920
Twelve members.

949
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:54,360
Right.

950
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:55,180
Let's have a listen.

951
00:43:55,260 --> 00:43:56,880
Let's have a listen to what it's just you, baby, saying.

952
00:43:57,040 --> 00:43:58,080
Last of the Internet Cafe.

953
00:43:58,520 --> 00:43:59,440
I'm Giles Bateman.

954
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:01,200
All right.

955
00:44:01,220 --> 00:44:03,880
So you guys are members of the Cult of the Dead Cow.

956
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:05,240
Kind of a pretty select group.

957
00:44:05,340 --> 00:44:06,520
There's about twelve members.

958
00:44:06,780 --> 00:44:06,980
Right.

959
00:44:07,100 --> 00:44:07,540
I guess.

960
00:44:08,820 --> 00:44:11,980
And this is a website and a group of what?

961
00:44:12,060 --> 00:44:12,420
Hackers?

962
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:13,960
Do you call yourself a hackers organization?

963
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:17,400
I think we're primarily hackers that don't hack anymore.

964
00:44:17,740 --> 00:44:21,020
We're an electronic zine for the hack freak community.

965
00:44:21,420 --> 00:44:21,820
People like us.

966
00:44:22,020 --> 00:44:22,680
White night.

967
00:44:23,020 --> 00:44:26,100
We're an electronic zine for the hack freak community.

968
00:44:26,240 --> 00:44:27,000
People like us.

969
00:44:27,580 --> 00:44:32,000
We're an electronic zine for the hack freak community.

970
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:33,460
People like us.

971
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:38,120
There's a bit of indignation from this guy.

972
00:44:38,620 --> 00:44:42,260
Because I think he's like, oh, Stuart isn't giving us the credence we deserve.

973
00:44:42,720 --> 00:44:44,440
We're the Cult of the fucking Dead Cow.

974
00:44:44,740 --> 00:44:47,680
And this guy is talking to us like we're just last week's old news.

975
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:48,240
Thanks very much.

976
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:50,860
Giles Bateman, the Dead Cow, and Samantha Hager.

977
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:51,540
Thank you.

978
00:44:51,540 --> 00:44:51,840
Hackers?

979
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:53,360
Do you call yourself a hackers organization?

980
00:44:54,140 --> 00:44:56,780
I think we're primarily hackers that don't hack anymore.

981
00:44:57,420 --> 00:45:00,420
We're an electronic zine for the hack freak community.

982
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:01,320
People like us.

983
00:45:02,100 --> 00:45:02,560
Wow.

984
00:45:03,100 --> 00:45:05,820
We're an electronic zine for the hack freak community.

985
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:06,760
People like us.

986
00:45:06,860 --> 00:45:07,060
Crazy.

987
00:45:07,060 --> 00:45:07,380
Okay.

988
00:45:07,700 --> 00:45:09,000
Now, why don't you hack anymore?

989
00:45:09,740 --> 00:45:11,960
I think most of us have outgrown it to an extent.

990
00:45:12,220 --> 00:45:13,160
We started very early.

991
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:15,100
In the early 80s when it was really exciting.

992
00:45:16,220 --> 00:45:20,120
But they haven't outgrown the fashion of the early 80s.

993
00:45:20,240 --> 00:45:21,740
It's still with the fresh.

994
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:23,240
And these days it just isn't that way anymore.

995
00:45:23,260 --> 00:45:24,380
When you say outgrown, is that close?

996
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:26,520
You're older or like the world is different?

997
00:45:27,300 --> 00:45:28,920
I think the world is different.

998
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:30,500
It used to be that.

999
00:45:31,100 --> 00:45:32,160
I think the world.

1000
00:45:32,240 --> 00:45:34,040
Thank you very much, Cyber Blashed.

1001
00:45:34,100 --> 00:45:35,220
I hope you're getting on well.

1002
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:37,120
He thinks the world is different.

1003
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:40,780
This is none other than read MFing Fleming.

1004
00:45:41,460 --> 00:45:43,800
Read mother Fleming.

1005
00:45:44,740 --> 00:45:46,580
Read mother f***ing Fleming.

1006
00:45:46,820 --> 00:45:54,420
That one person on his own could exploit or discover features of computer systems that were still in development.

1007
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:56,520
Things that were constantly renewing themselves.

1008
00:45:57,180 --> 00:46:00,580
Now both the computer technologies have settled down.

1009
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:05,800
And also, you know, it's much more difficult to do something on an individual basis.

1010
00:46:06,420 --> 00:46:08,040
So you talk about hackers and freaks.

1011
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:08,900
What do you mean by freaks?

1012
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:12,320
Well, freaks are generally people concerned with phone systems.

1013
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:13,080
They are working.

1014
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:15,780
Thank you very much to iMac there.

1015
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:17,080
I hope you're getting on well.

1016
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:21,220
iMac and surname of Weir.

1017
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:22,900
Thank you very much, Mr. Weir.

1018
00:46:23,260 --> 00:46:26,420
And also, a clone named Gibson.

1019
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:28,560
... system in the network that comprises that system.

1020
00:46:29,820 --> 00:46:30,140
I know.

1021
00:46:30,240 --> 00:46:32,060
So the hack, I mean, we still hear a lot about hackers.

1022
00:46:32,180 --> 00:46:34,540
You guys are saying, I mean, it's really not much fun anymore.

1023
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:39,080
Is hackers just like a social, cultural, rebellious thing these days?

1024
00:46:39,180 --> 00:46:40,260
You're not really a hacker?

1025
00:46:40,260 --> 00:46:41,220
You just call yourself a hacker?

1026
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:42,900
I think it may be that way.

1027
00:46:43,260 --> 00:46:44,160
I'm sure it's exciting.

1028
00:46:44,240 --> 00:46:45,480
Poor camera movement there.

1029
00:46:45,900 --> 00:46:47,600
But there was poor communication.

1030
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:48,820
It's who's taking the lead?

1031
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:50,900
This guy wants to take the lead on the questions.

1032
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:51,920
On the answers.

1033
00:46:52,060 --> 00:46:53,160
For the kids that are up and coming.

1034
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:54,360
You just call yourself a social hacker?

1035
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:57,120
I think it may be that way.

1036
00:46:57,800 --> 00:47:00,740
He didn't get a look and his friend did not get a look in there.

1037
00:47:03,260 --> 00:47:07,280
You need to jump in with these egomaniacs who want to dominate the conversation.

1038
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:09,700
Don't let them dominate the conversation.

1039
00:47:10,340 --> 00:47:12,660
I'm sure it's exciting for the kids that are up and coming now.

1040
00:47:12,860 --> 00:47:18,800
But I don't think they feel nearly what we felt back in the early 80s when it was a whole new world out there.

1041
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:20,980
I mean, what did you feel back in the 80s when you started hacking?

1042
00:47:20,980 --> 00:47:21,980
New world.

1043
00:47:22,740 --> 00:47:25,960
A brand new place to do digital hacking.

1044
00:47:26,100 --> 00:47:27,000
What was exciting?

1045
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:30,980
It's an entire new world of electronics to explore.

1046
00:47:31,420 --> 00:47:34,360
And it's a world that hadn't been explored by anyone.

1047
00:47:34,500 --> 00:47:35,320
It was just wide open.

1048
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:40,140
Was it powering away for a kind of anxiety-ridden teenager to think,

1049
00:47:40,220 --> 00:47:41,660
Hey, I can break into this thing?

1050
00:47:41,780 --> 00:47:45,640
Maybe so, but the rush of discovery is something that you really can't put into words.

1051
00:47:45,940 --> 00:47:49,080
Today, though, there isn't much to discover anymore.

1052
00:47:49,260 --> 00:47:52,780
You can subscribe to 2600 or blacklisted and get all the information you need.

1053
00:47:52,860 --> 00:47:54,140
There's not much to find on your own.

1054
00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:58,460
So it's just matured kind of too much to really make it difficult for you, I guess.

1055
00:47:58,500 --> 00:47:59,120
It's not satisfying.

1056
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:00,580
It's not satisfying, yeah.

1057
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:01,900
Let me talk about your website.

1058
00:48:02,100 --> 00:48:04,820
I mean, the Cult of the Dead Cal CDC was a really interesting website.

1059
00:48:04,940 --> 00:48:09,380
The first thing I noticed, you go on there and you spend the first, like, eight pages bragging about your press clippings.

1060
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:11,800
I mean, is this like a big put-on?

1061
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:16,400
I mean, you guys just playing with everybody out there and they all think you're terrible guys, but you're just, like, pulling everybody's chain?

1062
00:48:16,980 --> 00:48:19,280
Well, I think we are playing with people to an extent.

1063
00:48:19,620 --> 00:48:21,960
But if you dig past it, you find actual information.

1064
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:26,660
Look at the state of the fucking crack that they've been plying out there onto the Netscape.

1065
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:28,900
We are the mighty and the chosen.

1066
00:48:29,540 --> 00:48:31,000
Ninja Strikeforce.

1067
00:48:31,100 --> 00:48:32,080
These are grown men.

1068
00:48:32,300 --> 00:48:33,140
Don't forget that.

1069
00:48:33,700 --> 00:48:36,520
Our power cannot be contained.

1070
00:48:37,660 --> 00:48:38,000
Wow.

1071
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:40,000
They really convinced us with that.

1072
00:48:41,020 --> 00:48:46,660
Brilliant Windows 98, not even 98, Windows 95 paint application.

1073
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:49,540
Could you even do those shapes in paint?

1074
00:48:49,580 --> 00:48:50,120
I'm not sure.

1075
00:48:50,860 --> 00:48:55,920
Thank you very much, Toker Hantas and Darkened Shrine.

1076
00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:57,600
Thank you very much.

1077
00:48:57,600 --> 00:48:58,300
...information there.

1078
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:03,560
And on the other hand, you know, it's really not about the technical information.

1079
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:09,700
You know, we've been promulgating files with fiction and other things, and that's really led to our longevity.

1080
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:13,040
Look at the notes this lad in the background has taken.

1081
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:15,240
Scribbling away what's he writing.

1082
00:49:15,240 --> 00:49:17,580
I mean, most people log on to CDC.

1083
00:49:17,900 --> 00:49:22,240
I mean, are they looking for hacker technical stuff, or is it really just another e-zine?

1084
00:49:23,140 --> 00:49:25,300
I'm really not sure what most people are looking for.

1085
00:49:25,380 --> 00:49:27,380
I know a lot of people are looking for hacker stuff.

1086
00:49:27,380 --> 00:49:27,600
Really?

1087
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:33,120
We get mail, you know, 50, 75 pieces of mail a day from kids who want to join.

1088
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:35,020
Do you fuck?

1089
00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:47,460
Or they want us to hack their 75 pieces of mail a day from kids who want to join, or they want us to hack their school computer system or whatever, you know.

1090
00:49:49,060 --> 00:49:51,520
Stu's like, should I laugh at that?

1091
00:49:51,740 --> 00:49:53,180
Or should I mean, is that okay?

1092
00:49:53,420 --> 00:49:56,220
These people want to hack the schools of kids or what's the story?

1093
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:59,000
It's still, it's like, Stu's laughing.

1094
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:02,020
They want us to hack their school computer system or whatever.

1095
00:50:02,740 --> 00:50:08,640
Watch it change from the realization that he's thinking, and then it changes to serious.

1096
00:50:09,900 --> 00:50:10,660
That's not funny.

1097
00:50:10,940 --> 00:50:17,320
I mean, still, it's a lot of teenage boys basically coming into this and like, like doing their, their, their destructive malicious kind of thing.

1098
00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:18,300
I think it's a lot of them.

1099
00:50:18,340 --> 00:50:20,360
And it's also an established fan base that we have.

1100
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:22,040
The old school people that are...

1101
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:23,380
A fan base!

1102
00:50:23,620 --> 00:50:25,960
...members from back when they came up and have followed us.

1103
00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:29,860
I don't think people are going around going, when I grew up, I want to be watching my car, white knight.

1104
00:50:29,860 --> 00:50:31,860
Wow, white underscore knight man.

1105
00:50:31,860 --> 00:50:33,860
He's fucking savage.

1106
00:50:33,860 --> 00:50:36,560
He's fucking class man.

1107
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:38,460
Established fan base that we have.

1108
00:50:38,460 --> 00:50:40,060
The old school people that are...

1109
00:50:40,060 --> 00:50:43,760
I have posters of fucking white underscore knight on the wall man.

1110
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:47,600
It's gonna be an amazing time to be alive when I become him.

1111
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:50,520
Remember us from back when they came up and have followed us along the way.

1112
00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:51,120
Our friends.

1113
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:54,960
But you say the content on the site, I mean, there's a lot of just good serious writing in there, right?

1114
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:55,940
It has nothing to do with hacking.

1115
00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:56,700
Oh, that's true.

1116
00:50:56,700 --> 00:50:59,100
Looks brilliant. Looks unbelievable.

1117
00:50:59,100 --> 00:51:03,100
True. There's also a lot of spurious, you know, bizarre fiction.

1118
00:51:03,100 --> 00:51:03,600
Right?

1119
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:04,600
Yeah, there's all kinds.

1120
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:11,100
Now, there's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of four-letter words, a lot of sort of scary, intimidating sort of stuff in there.

1121
00:51:11,100 --> 00:51:12,100
Uh, is...

1122
00:51:12,100 --> 00:51:13,100
Words like...

1123
00:51:13,100 --> 00:51:15,100
...and...

1124
00:51:15,100 --> 00:51:17,100
...and...

1125
00:51:17,100 --> 00:51:18,100
...and...

1126
00:51:18,100 --> 00:51:25,100
...that just, again, just to have fun and play with it. I mean, you sort of trying to scare people off or just... titillate them?

1127
00:51:25,100 --> 00:51:30,500
I think it's a parody. It's a counterbalance to the rest of the hack world. It takes us up way too seriously. That's what it is.

1128
00:51:30,500 --> 00:51:43,600
You just have fun with folks there. But there is a serious aspect to it. I mean, you're really getting a message across. When you guys go out there and hack, I mean, aren't you trying to make people aware that the net is really not a secure, safe place, no matter what people say?

1129
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:55,000
Oh, absolutely. I think a lot of companies are trying to sell you on the idea that the internet's completely safe, that you can throw information around as long as it's not a credit card number. That's just not true. There's already too much information available to red.

1130
00:51:55,000 --> 00:52:01,400
...and this was back in 1996. And, uh...

1131
00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:05,400
...look at now, we're just willingly giving it all away. And, uh, you know, we're trying...

1132
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:17,000
Give it away, give it away, give it away now. Thank you very much, Jurassic Park bad guy. Thank you very... He does look like... Thanks for the tip. And he does look like the bad guy from Jurassic Park. You are correct. Thank you very much for the tip.

1133
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:23,400
...and who point out that anyone can get to it. Now, now, hackers and CDC, I mean, you guys have been called terrible things by the media. Sickos and...

1134
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:33,800
Sickos. Thank you very much, Zero Cool. We've got another beautiful Zero Cool web page here. Look at these absolute sickos.

1135
00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:40,200
...and you've got another beautiful thing. You've been called everything. Hey kid.

1136
00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:46,600
...you thought you were in LA. Wrong. You're in New Hack City now, right?

1137
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:50,600
...you play by our rules. NHC rules.

1138
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:56,600
...and you very much there, GakuSephiroth69 and...

1139
00:52:56,600 --> 00:53:03,000
...and none other than everything hip-hop. Evil people of one sort or another. I mean, you guys...

1140
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:07,400
I mean, I take it from what you're saying, you don't think of yourselves as bad people, right?

1141
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:13,000
I don't think of myself. They had to think about it. The two boys just had to think about...

1142
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:19,000
...are we bad people after talking about... You don't think of yourselves as bad people, right?

1143
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:25,000
...and stuff. Look at that. You're not a killer, are you? No, I'm not.

1144
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:29,240
...have we got that? Have we got that there? Have we got... You're not a killer. No, I'm not.

1145
00:53:29,240 --> 00:53:36,120
...uh, I don't think of myself as a bad person. But there may be others out there. Oh, but, uh, I think there are plenty of people who are...

1146
00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:45,000
...uh, happy with that title, actually. Because they just like feeling that or because it's accurate? Uh, both. I'm sure it's both.

1147
00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:50,120
...in a way, do you guys provide a service though? I mean... Both. I'm sure it's both.

1148
00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:52,120
...uh, both. I'm sure it's both.

1149
00:53:52,120 --> 00:54:08,360
...in a way, do you guys provide a service though? I mean, the hacker part of you, uh, in that... I mean, the industry learns stuff from me because it's like, "I've got... I've got... I've got...

1150
00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:12,360
...odd kind of spy versus spy thing going. I mean, you discover a bug, you discover a hole, which really then helps...

1151
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:18,600
They're out there discovering bugs and holes. Thank you very much, Johnson's Wireless Printer."

1152
00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:22,280
...and somebody else solve it, right? So, I mean, are you doing a service by being a hacker in a way?

1153
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:24,840
I think incidentally, um, that certainly has happened.

1154
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:26,440
You don't mean to do it. Oh, yeah. We certainly don't.

1155
00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:37,880
Uh, yeah, uh, okay, like, uh, I think we're the, just fan... we've got fan club members, uh, incidentally. I don't think so. Uh, yeah, okay, right.

1156
00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:43,960
...I mean to do it, but I think security has definitely evolved in the period of time, you know, since, since we got into hacking. Right.

1157
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:48,040
...the last 10 or 12 years, um, it's, it's a completely different world.

1158
00:54:48,040 --> 00:54:52,360
Although we do sponsor HoHoCon every year, our convention in December, and that...

1159
00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:55,320
HoHoCon. Get on it.

1160
00:54:55,320 --> 00:55:01,480
That does a lot to help out the security people. They get to see the kinds of, uh, things that hackers have been up to in the last year.

1161
00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:07,240
Is that an adversary relationship between the hackers and the security people, or is there sort of a symbiotic relationship?

1162
00:55:07,240 --> 00:55:12,920
Is this a bad thing for kids to be playing this? Is this a bad thing for kids to be playing this, or is there a good side to it?

1163
00:55:13,720 --> 00:55:19,800
Same cadence and intonation. What we've actually tried to do is, is get the security people and the hackers together, so, so the security can...

1164
00:55:19,800 --> 00:55:27,080
...the security can... ...the security... ...the security... Is that an adversary relationship between the hackers and the security people, or is there sort of a symbiotic relationship?

1165
00:55:27,080 --> 00:55:36,600
What we've actually tried to do is, is get the security people and the hackers together, so, so the security can see, can see these kids and realize they're just ordinary, interested kids, um, and not hate them in the same ways that they have,

1166
00:55:36,600 --> 00:55:43,080
and vice versa, you know? Um, I think we, I think we've done some good towards, towards bringing those two sides together a little bit.

1167
00:55:43,080 --> 00:55:49,560
Do you think it's unfair, then, the sort of demonization of the hackers in the media? I mean, you say hacker and most people think bad guy, criminal...

1168
00:55:49,560 --> 00:56:01,320
Check out this lad in the background. What's he at? What's he doing? What kind of games is he playing?

1169
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:09,240
Is it even a him? Or is it a shame?

1170
00:56:09,240 --> 00:56:13,240
...a criminal crook breaking into something, but in a...

1171
00:56:13,240 --> 00:56:15,240
Matt, sad, cad. Thank you very much.

1172
00:56:15,240 --> 00:56:21,240
Well, I think you're really saying, Reid, that the computer industry sort of benefits from the work that hackers do, in a sense.

1173
00:56:21,240 --> 00:56:25,720
Well, I think many hackers actually deserve, you know, any demonization that they get, but, uh...

1174
00:56:25,720 --> 00:56:37,720
If this was a later series of, uh, Netcafe, they would have moved on from the conversation. It was the Jane Withers one. That was petering out a good minute and a half before they got the fuck out there.

1175
00:56:37,720 --> 00:56:41,720
They should have been out here, fast. But they're still here, hanging around.

1176
00:56:41,720 --> 00:56:49,320
You know, by and large, uh, most of the hackers are, aren't out to destroy the world, you know? If they were, it would have been destroyed by now.

1177
00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:54,200
All right. Thanks a lot, guys. Thank you.

1178
00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:54,200
Thank you.

1179
00:56:54,200 --> 00:57:08,920
Be sure to check out www.pctv.com for featured URLs. Hi, this is... Oh, God, another one. It's got a bodily Jägermeister there. What the hell is this guy flinging at us? Let's have a look.

1180
00:57:10,680 --> 00:57:23,480
Seems a little bit more natural than the last guy where they had a gunpoint. And they're in some kind of rack room full of electronics, which fits with the aesthetic of the show, but it's not a cafe. This is just some random back room somewhere.

1181
00:57:25,640 --> 00:57:39,640
Here we go. Hi, this is Death Veggie Minister. You're not a killer. No, I'm not. You're not a killer. No, I'm not. Propaganda for Cult of the Dead Cow Communications, bringing you our Media Global Domination update for October 1996. We here at CDC are proud to

1182
00:57:39,640 --> 00:58:01,640
announce that Operation Mad Cow, as initiated by our British Commando Geneticist team, is a complete success. There are now more dead cows in England than ever before. Our plans are progressing well on schedule, and by this rate, we should be in full control of this measly little planet that you call Earth by the year 2003. Have a nice day.

1183
00:58:01,640 --> 00:58:14,640
All right, let's be honest. It's almost two o'clock in the morning here on the internet. I can't even look at this, but look at this. All right, let's be honest. What's Stu going to say here? We've got a double Stu here because they're transitioning from there to there.

1184
00:58:15,140 --> 00:58:35,820
It's a lovely frame to be on, but I like the way this is going already. Stu going, all right, okay, let's be honest here, guys. It's two in the morning. You got something going on. What's he going to say next? What are the bets? What's the follow-up here? Just want to see in the chat. Just the topic. What's the topic he's going to touch on? It's three. It's two in the morning. Blah, blah, blah.

1185
00:58:35,820 --> 00:59:05,600
Stew pot Sunday. Stew, stew. Money making. Fair grip on the pen. Millennium bug. Millennium bug, maybe. We don't know. The lad. Hobbs, coin, but breakfast. I'm back home. Two in the morning. Cake. Stuart Chaffee. Where's my pizza? Crypto. They wouldn't be talking about crypto back then. Not fentanyl either. Joe Rogan wasn't even big then.

1186
00:59:05,600 --> 00:59:18,140
He didn't have the podcast. He wouldn't know. They wouldn't know about Joe Rogan. Bobby Davro is not even in his mind. Stuart Chaffee doesn't know who Bobby Davro is. FBI networks.

1187
00:59:18,900 --> 00:59:28,160
Cafe. We spent a lot of time with these hackers tonight. More than. Let's be honest. It's almost two o'clock in the morning. Also, it's two in the morning there. I get you. I didn't realize that.

1188
00:59:28,160 --> 00:59:34,820
Internet Cafe. We spent a lot of time with these hackers tonight. More than. Jane's wrecked. The people on TV have seen.

1189
00:59:35,380 --> 00:59:40,300
I want to ask you, Jane. You were kind of dubious and I think a little uncomfortable about this whole hacker subject when we started.

1190
00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:42,800
Now that you've spent a lot of time with these guys, what do you think now?

1191
00:59:43,040 --> 00:59:48,040
Well, you know, it's really interesting because when we were surfing the sites, you know, we see some things that are a little edgy out there.

1192
00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:51,540
And then talking to these guys, it was quite a different experience.

1193
00:59:51,780 --> 00:59:52,520
Me? Huh?

1194
00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:56,940
I wouldn't do anything like that. I'm into security, you know, so it's kind of almost like everybody.

1195
00:59:57,140 --> 01:00:02,620
What are they on there? What's stew on there? Is it a short? Is it a cheeky, neat whiskey? Is it?

1196
01:00:02,860 --> 01:00:13,580
It's two in the morning. It's time to wrap up. Andrew's on the Coca-Cola and Jane's keeping it real. Just pure, still ice cold water.

1197
01:00:13,920 --> 01:00:16,340
Everybody's having their moms watching the TV. They're kind of telling things down.

1198
01:00:16,340 --> 01:00:22,080
I think maybe we got a little sort of con. I wouldn't say con, but I mean, everybody was like, oh, we're helping the security of the net.

1199
01:00:22,180 --> 01:00:24,780
But of course, these guys know why they're helping because they know what you can do.

1200
01:00:25,120 --> 01:00:31,220
Also, I think some of these guys told me kind of off camera, well, when I was 14, 15, 16, and they weren't going to send me to jail, I was doing more hacking.

1201
01:00:31,300 --> 01:00:31,420
Right.

1202
01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:36,320
And also, they've grown up, frankly. It's sort of like the hippies in the 60s in Chicago at the Democratic Convention.

1203
01:00:36,460 --> 01:00:40,880
They wear suits, and they have real jobs, and they have wives, and houses, and mortgages, and they sort of act differently.

1204
01:00:41,100 --> 01:00:42,420
But these guys didn't get haircuts.

1205
01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:44,000
Well, Dan didn't, sir.

1206
01:00:45,900 --> 01:00:49,280
Thank you very much, Flembag and 9miljilp.

1207
01:00:52,680 --> 01:00:55,020
And Trent from Punchy.

1208
01:00:55,140 --> 01:00:56,680
Thank you very much for your tips, Dan.

1209
01:00:56,840 --> 01:00:57,680
That's for sure.

1210
01:00:57,880 --> 01:00:59,100
He was a great guy.

1211
01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:00,700
He was really at the...

1212
01:01:00,700 --> 01:01:01,940
He was a great guy.

1213
01:01:02,200 --> 01:01:05,220
The forefront of the whole networking and security issues front.

1214
01:01:05,320 --> 01:01:09,500
Had to teach himself, kind of take that hacker mentality, and learn what to do on the net.

1215
01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:17,060
released this program, Satan, that turned out to be a really popular program that actually helps corporations, you know, keep hackers out.

1216
01:01:17,200 --> 01:01:18,180
Yeah, yeah, interesting.

1217
01:01:18,420 --> 01:01:21,680
One last point I'd like to make on the Cult of the Dead Cows, the guys I spoke to.

1218
01:01:22,160 --> 01:01:23,460
That's, as you said, very edgy.

1219
01:01:23,540 --> 01:01:25,060
There's a lot of four-letter words, bad stuff.

1220
01:01:25,140 --> 01:01:27,540
But if you get past that, it is a very well-done website.

1221
01:01:27,700 --> 01:01:28,480
A lot of good content.

1222
01:01:28,580 --> 01:01:29,980
Some of the best writing I've seen on the web.

1223
01:01:30,100 --> 01:01:33,080
So there's kind of prejudice on the web, too, even though they say there isn't.

1224
01:01:33,460 --> 01:01:33,840
Hey, thanks.

1225
01:01:33,980 --> 01:01:35,560
There's kind of prejudice on the web.

1226
01:01:35,880 --> 01:01:37,900
Wise words from Stewie saw it all coming.

1227
01:01:38,240 --> 01:01:44,140
Those edgelords on the internet back then, even before it was a big, popular thing to do.

1228
01:01:44,160 --> 01:01:50,300
So joining us, get your coffee mug, your TV browser here same time next week, and join us again at the Internet Cafe.

1229
01:01:50,700 --> 01:01:53,020
So coffee mug, TV browser.

1230
01:01:54,560 --> 01:01:56,180
And what's that about?

1231
01:01:56,300 --> 01:02:00,300
So this wasn't on the telly, or it was, or was this just something you saw on the internet?

1232
01:02:00,540 --> 01:02:01,240
I'm not sure.

1233
01:02:01,360 --> 01:02:02,380
And it was two in the morning.

1234
01:02:02,520 --> 01:02:05,760
These guys were fucking, they were doing it hard style.

1235
01:02:06,460 --> 01:02:07,320
Have a job.

1236
01:02:07,400 --> 01:02:08,260
Thank you very much.

1237
01:02:08,920 --> 01:02:11,900
The Internet Cafe is made possible in part by Intel.

1238
01:02:12,320 --> 01:02:14,040
One idea always leads to another.

1239
01:02:14,560 --> 01:02:19,320
Now there are connected CD-ROMs that link rich multimedia with related information on the internet.

1240
01:02:19,860 --> 01:02:23,080
For connected CD-ROMs, it's the Intel Pentium processor.

1241
01:02:25,240 --> 01:02:32,580
Lovely, lovely, lovely episode there of Fast 32, the Net Cafe, your Rosie Chronicles.

1242
01:02:33,340 --> 01:02:36,800
With none other than Stew Baby, hefe.

1243
01:02:37,200 --> 01:02:42,640
We might go back in time now and just wind down from the chaos there.

1244
01:02:42,860 --> 01:02:52,580
An absolute, non-stop, irreverent, hardcore 90s net-based episode of Net Cafe and move back in time.

1245
01:02:52,660 --> 01:02:57,520
Let's wind back the clock to a more sedate, serene version of Computer Chronicles.

1246
01:02:57,920 --> 01:02:59,820
Although I'm not sure, will it maintain?

1247
01:02:59,980 --> 01:03:00,980
Will it still have the same energy?

1248
01:03:01,360 --> 01:03:03,540
Let's have a look and see if it has the same energy.

1249
01:03:03,800 --> 01:03:05,220
Andy the Fork, thank you very much.

1250
01:03:05,220 --> 01:03:06,840
On the Computer Chronicles.

1251
01:03:07,420 --> 01:03:08,780
That's the end of the episode.

1252
01:03:09,600 --> 01:03:11,340
This is the beginning of a new episode.

1253
01:03:11,520 --> 01:03:13,920
It's from The Battle of the Browsers.

1254
01:03:14,280 --> 01:03:15,680
Willie Harald, fact check.

1255
01:03:15,780 --> 01:03:16,420
Thank you very much.

1256
01:03:16,520 --> 01:03:21,140
Internet link on Davis Street is Limerick City's one-stop Net Cafe.

1257
01:03:21,660 --> 01:03:23,040
Thank you very much for that tip.

1258
01:03:23,480 --> 01:03:26,400
And it sounds like a brilliant Net Cafe there in Limerick as well.

1259
01:03:26,500 --> 01:03:28,060
Also, big shout out to Big Red.

1260
01:03:28,460 --> 01:03:30,040
And thank you very much for your tip there.

1261
01:03:30,960 --> 01:03:32,500
Into the Computer Chronicles.

1262
01:03:32,500 --> 01:03:34,960
I was going to say we're winding back the clock,

1263
01:03:35,060 --> 01:03:37,640
where it seems as though Stu was double jobbing.

1264
01:03:37,980 --> 01:03:38,800
This is the year.

1265
01:03:38,940 --> 01:03:40,080
This is a year after.

1266
01:03:40,740 --> 01:03:42,940
So not only was he doing Computer Chronicles,

1267
01:03:43,080 --> 01:03:43,540
he was burnt.

1268
01:03:43,660 --> 01:03:46,140
No wonder they were up till two in the morning on Net Cafe,

1269
01:03:46,340 --> 01:03:49,520
because during the day, it was all about the crons.

1270
01:03:49,900 --> 01:03:55,520
Let's have a look at some of this unbelievable Stu Pack, Shakur magic from 1997.

1271
01:03:55,860 --> 01:03:57,000
Battle of the Browsers, guys.

1272
01:03:57,400 --> 01:03:59,360
You don't tend to think about the hip-hop culture.

1273
01:03:59,360 --> 01:04:00,160
Bat 32.

1274
01:04:00,620 --> 01:04:02,760
All about rap music and the hip-hop scene.

1275
01:04:02,860 --> 01:04:03,460
Bat 32.

1276
01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:04,360
Listen.

1277
01:04:04,500 --> 01:04:05,640
I don't travel in those circles.

1278
01:04:05,760 --> 01:04:06,920
I don't get to talk to those guys.

1279
01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:07,300
Those guys.

1280
01:04:07,460 --> 01:04:08,040
Bat 32.

1281
01:04:08,240 --> 01:04:10,200
But I did get to talk to them in this chat room.

1282
01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:10,820
Bat 32.

1283
01:04:11,040 --> 01:04:12,440
Hip-hop chat room I went into.

1284
01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:15,240
I don't know a lot about the hip-hop scene, but...

1285
01:04:15,240 --> 01:04:15,780
Bat 32.

1286
01:04:15,860 --> 01:04:16,280
You do now?

1287
01:04:16,500 --> 01:04:17,020
I do now.

1288
01:04:17,700 --> 01:04:19,140
I don't travel in those circles.

1289
01:04:19,220 --> 01:04:20,400
I don't get to talk to those guys.

1290
01:04:20,560 --> 01:04:21,080
Bat 32.

1291
01:04:21,520 --> 01:04:23,820
Man, I learned a lot about what really goes on in that world.

1292
01:04:23,820 --> 01:04:25,820
Bat 32.

1293
01:04:25,820 --> 01:04:25,860
Bat 32.

1294
01:04:25,860 --> 01:04:25,900
Bat 32.

1295
01:04:25,900 --> 01:04:27,500
Bat 32.

1296
01:04:27,500 --> 01:04:29,340
Bat 32.

1297
01:04:29,340 --> 01:04:29,500
Bat 32.

1298
01:04:29,500 --> 01:04:29,960
Bat 32.

1299
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:29,960
Bat 32.

1300
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:29,960
Bat 32.

1301
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:29,960
Bat 32.

1302
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:29,960
Bat 32.

1303
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:29,960
Bat 32.

1304
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:29,960
Bat 32.

1305
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:29,960
Bat 32.

1306
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:29,960
Bat 32.

1307
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:29,960
Bat 32.

1308
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:29,960
Bat 32.

1309
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:29,960
Bat 32.

1310
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:29,960
Bat 32.

1311
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:29,960
Bat 32.

1312
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:29,960
Bat 32.

1313
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:29,960
Bat 32.

1314
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:29,960
Bat 32.

1315
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:29,960
Bat 32.

1316
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:29,960
Bat 32.

1317
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:29,960
Bat 32.

1318
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:30,960
Bat 32.

1319
01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:31,960
Bat 32.

1320
01:04:31,960 --> 01:04:31,960
Bat 32.

1321
01:04:31,960 --> 01:04:31,960
Bat 32.

1322
01:04:31,960 --> 01:04:32,960
Bat 32.

1323
01:04:32,960 --> 01:04:33,960
Bat 32.

1324
01:04:33,960 --> 01:04:33,960
Bat 32.

1325
01:04:33,960 --> 01:04:34,960
Bat 32.

1326
01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:35,960
Bat 32.

1327
01:04:35,960 --> 01:04:35,960
Bat 32.

1328
01:04:35,960 --> 01:04:37,960
Connecting.

1329
01:04:37,960 --> 01:04:39,960
Authorizing.

1330
01:04:39,960 --> 01:04:40,960
Established network.

1331
01:04:40,960 --> 01:04:41,960
Established network.

1332
01:04:41,960 --> 01:04:42,960
Open.

1333
01:04:42,960 --> 01:04:44,960
Sorry, it's a bit loud.

1334
01:04:44,960 --> 01:04:45,300
There's a bit loud.

1335
01:04:45,300 --> 01:04:45,960
Yeah!

1336
01:04:45,960 --> 01:04:46,960
Yay!

1337
01:04:46,960 --> 01:05:13,960
This week on the Computer Chronicles, the battle of the browsers. We'll get up close and personal with the new Communicator 4.0 from Netscape. We'll show you the ins and outs of the Internet Explorer 4.0 from Microsoft. We'll see how they both handle audio and video streaming. Whoa. We'll talk to some end users and to some web designers. Whoa. The shtade of that man. Fucking brick top.

1338
01:05:13,960 --> 01:05:34,800
Look at this cool customer with the green hair. He's got the green hair spray in the hair. I don't know what the brand is. Jedi S or something. But he's rocking the ergonomic curved keyboard there. For pure hardcore input output action.

1339
01:05:34,800 --> 01:05:38,620
Dislike about the new browsers. And we'll talk with a senior technology.

1340
01:05:38,620 --> 01:05:41,920
It's an amazing situation.

1341
01:05:41,920 --> 01:05:52,680
Editor to see if we can figure out once and for all who will win the battle of the browsers. Plus my pick of the week, a very unusual program called Disc Tracy. You won't want to miss this, Comics.

1342
01:05:52,680 --> 01:06:11,720
Disc Tracy. O'Sheen, thank you very much. Can you tell Aidan he's a massive cretin? Thank you very much there. Sorry about that, Aidan. If you are watching, it's not my, it's nothing to do with me. That was sincerely just the message that I'm reading out there from your friend. O'Sheen. Direct all anger and vile at him.

1343
01:06:11,720 --> 01:06:16,480
Thanks, Rip. Thanks very much. It's all coming up next on the Computer Chronicles.

1344
01:06:16,480 --> 01:06:22,480
Computer Chronicles is made possible in... Good Guys, CC Labs, and On The Road.

1345
01:06:22,480 --> 01:06:40,240
You can tell there that the idea was to have good guys and then cool dudes and something. And they were going to show each one of those buttons on the PC, press them, and then...

1346
01:06:40,240 --> 01:07:03,000
...and there'll be a sponsor. So we've got good guys and CC Labs, I don't know what that is, and On The Road, I'm not sure what that is either, but they dispensed with that and just went from brand to brand to brand.

1347
01:07:03,000 --> 01:07:13,760
And how-to's for a Windows world. Because the world runs on Windows.

1348
01:07:13,760 --> 01:07:25,720
And there's another glimpse into the hot, hot world of TV production there. And it was really just, you know, give and go, one touch passing, pass and move kind of play in a TV studio.

1349
01:07:26,520 --> 01:07:31,280
And everyone was just a whisker away from either failure or success.

1350
01:07:31,280 --> 01:07:32,280
Runs on Windows.

1351
01:07:32,280 --> 01:07:39,040
And look at that. Hand signals.

1352
01:07:39,040 --> 01:07:53,040
And suspenders, or whatever you call those yokes, on that fella. And this, I like the way that there was always one person just waiting for the next interview. I don't know what that says there. Ent boy.

1353
01:07:53,040 --> 01:07:57,960
Paint boy. Paint box. Paint box.

1354
01:07:57,960 --> 01:08:02,920
Hi, and welcome to the Computer Chronicles. I'm Stuart Shiffey. Well...

1355
01:08:02,920 --> 01:08:06,180
Just pure pros. Professionals just doing their job.

1356
01:08:06,300 --> 01:08:12,920
It all really started with Mosaic, the first graphical user interface for the internet and the World Wide Web, and then there was Netscape.

1357
01:08:13,000 --> 01:08:23,520
Sorry, who says there that Schindler is being given the boot. He hasn't been given... Well, maybe he has, I'm not sure. But we don't really see Oscar Schindler... Not Oscar Schindler. Peter Schindler.

1358
01:08:23,520 --> 01:08:39,480
Or Paul Schindler. We don't see him that much on the show in the later episodes. But as part of my Stuart Shiffey deep dive lore history that I was looking at or listening to during the week, we might go back and revisit some of the really old ones.

1359
01:08:39,480 --> 01:08:54,660
Don't really watch the old Computer Chronicles that much because they don't have the same energy as the later years. But the early 80s stuff is where it began. And Stuart had a co-presenter as well in the shape of a man called Gary Kildall.

1360
01:08:55,440 --> 01:09:11,480
Now, there was a story behind Gary Kildall that shocked me to my core. Apparently, thank you very much for the tip there, Pintbox Man and none other than Gridrain. I hope you're doing well. Apparently, Gary Kildall invented the first... Not first, but a disk operating system.

1361
01:09:12,860 --> 01:09:15,400
And Bill Gates ripped him off.

1362
01:09:17,400 --> 01:09:28,460
There was a deal that Bill Gates was meeting. Microsoft was meeting with IBM or something. And they wanted... What they wanted was software and they needed a user interface or something like that.

1363
01:09:28,460 --> 01:09:45,300
And Bill Gates hadn't got a disk operated system. MS-DOS wasn't invented. And they invited Gary or something like that. Gary couldn't make it or something. Apparently, Bill Gates didn't really specify what the meeting was about. There was a lot of money in it.

1364
01:09:45,720 --> 01:09:59,680
And he missed out on the deal anyway. And Bill Gates went and got someone in Seattle to make a replica of Gary Kildall's... Well, they already had it made anyway, but he got them involved in the deal and undercut Gary.

1365
01:09:59,680 --> 01:10:14,200
And the rest is history. And apparently, it drove Gary Kildall insane. And he sadly passed away before his time. And Stuart Chauffey was saying, yeah, it drove him... That did him in.

1366
01:10:14,380 --> 01:10:39,380
You know, really, it's just... Everybody would always bring it up to poor Gary Kildall. Check it out. If you're interested in the Computer Chronicles, shit goes deep. There's even an episode they do on Gary Kildall we haven't seen yet, where they go back and they revisit his life after he was... I think he was... It was a tragic ending in a biker bar in 1994 in California somewhere. Crazy, crazy days.

1367
01:10:39,380 --> 01:10:43,720
Navigator, then Microsoft's Internet Explorer, and several versions later, it's...

1368
01:10:43,720 --> 01:10:50,060
Cutthroat. It was a cutthroat industry and still is. But they made Bill Gates to be a right fucking see you next Tuesday.

1369
01:10:50,060 --> 01:10:57,080
Now a battle between Netscape Communicator 4.0 and Internet Explorer 4.0. Which is the best browser for you?

1370
01:10:57,180 --> 01:10:59,520
Thank you very much, Gates the She-8. Thank you very much.

1371
01:10:59,580 --> 01:11:03,360
Gonna take a look at both and let you decide for yourself. Here to get us going is...

1372
01:11:03,360 --> 01:11:08,220
I think it's too loud. I think Chauffey is too loud there. He's peeking on the waveform.

1373
01:11:08,220 --> 01:11:14,560
Mark Brown. Mark is the author of this brand new big fat book called Using Netscape Communicator 4.0.

1374
01:11:14,560 --> 01:11:16,560
Brand new big fat book. This is gonna be very interesting.

1375
01:11:16,560 --> 01:11:21,080
And I should mention Mark, we asked somebody from Netscape to come here and demonstrate communication.

1376
01:11:21,080 --> 01:11:29,560
Why did he say big fat book? Like, and then it... Well, I suppose it is fat, but like, you don't need to say that when it's gonna cut to the correspondent's shot.0.0.

1377
01:11:29,560 --> 01:11:38,900
And I'm gonna take a look at both and let you decide for yourself. Here to get us going is Mark Brown. Mark is the author of this brand new big fat book called Using Netscape Communicator.

1378
01:11:38,900 --> 01:11:44,860
They declined, so you very kindly offered to do it for them, having spent a year playing with it. Glad to be here. All right, let's start out and give it...

1379
01:11:44,860 --> 01:11:51,500
All right, no nonsense. Stuart Chauffey also divulged information that he doesn't. He didn't Google himself because, one, it's embarrassing.

1380
01:11:51,500 --> 01:12:04,440
And two, he said that he found out that people say he's the most hated man in America. I don't believe that. When asked why in the interviews, he went on to say that it was because his interviewing style is so cutthroat.

1381
01:12:04,440 --> 01:12:19,360
You know, he's just, he doesn't hang around and he cuts people off. But he goes on at pain and at length to say and justify his behavior because these people who came on the show on Computer Chronicles were kind of salespeople, more or less.

1382
01:12:19,540 --> 01:12:37,000
They had their spiels, but Chauffey needed to translate the tech speak to the layman who was sitting at home watching, wondering what to spend his tech money on. Thank you very much there, Paul Meschel. And thank you very much for that. I won't read that. It's a bit cruel, but thanks very much for the day.

1383
01:12:37,000 --> 01:12:40,880
You very kindly offered to do it for them, having spent a year playing with it. Glad to be here. All right.

1384
01:12:41,660 --> 01:12:46,680
And it's encapsulated in that. The thing he was getting at is this. All right, yeah, let's go.

1385
01:12:47,020 --> 01:12:51,180
They declined. So you very kindly offered to do it for them, having spent a year playing with it.

1386
01:12:51,960 --> 01:13:00,180
Glad to be here. All right. Let's start out and give us the sort of basic road tour introduction to what the new interface looks like in Communicator, what these new components are.

1387
01:13:00,580 --> 01:13:08,540
Well, Communicator is really a step ahead of Netscape Navigator. Navigator had email and news group components to it. That was about it.

1388
01:13:08,900 --> 01:13:14,120
Communicator is actually a whole suite. If we go up here to the menu, you see the Navigator is still in there.

1389
01:13:14,980 --> 01:13:20,380
We also have the email and news group programs, but there's an HTML editor.

1390
01:13:20,620 --> 01:13:23,560
Yeah, Collabra up there I saw, which is their sort of discussion group.

1391
01:13:23,660 --> 01:13:25,180
Right. That's their news group program.

1392
01:13:25,240 --> 01:13:26,320
And what's the Page Composer?

1393
01:13:26,480 --> 01:13:29,900
Page Composer is their HTML editor, WYSIWYG editor.

1394
01:13:29,900 --> 01:13:38,220
There's a conferencing application. There's a calendaring application, IBM host, Netcaster, which is their push component.

1395
01:13:38,480 --> 01:13:42,480
Okay. So it really is a suite of a bunch of things. It's Navigator plus all these new things they've put in there.

1396
01:13:42,480 --> 01:13:48,400
It is. As a matter of fact, they even have a new control taskbar, which is docked right here. We can click on that and that'll come up.

1397
01:13:48,560 --> 01:13:51,120
This is like the Microsoft Office navigation task.

1398
01:13:51,680 --> 01:13:55,320
Thank you very much, Resident Evil 4 Gameplay. Up now, thanks very much for that.

1399
01:13:55,360 --> 01:13:57,080
Back down in the corner where it's out of the way.

1400
01:13:57,160 --> 01:13:59,280
All right. So you've got Netscape's homepage up here.

1401
01:13:59,340 --> 01:13:59,520
All right.

1402
01:13:59,520 --> 01:14:03,340
So let's play with it for a while and see how we would do something, browse the web here using it.

1403
01:14:03,400 --> 01:14:05,680
Well, this is a Communicator information page.

1404
01:14:06,120 --> 01:14:13,100
Here they actually have a link to a comparison chart, which compares the feature of Communicator to Internet Explorer 4.

1405
01:14:13,260 --> 01:14:14,300
From Netscape's point of view.

1406
01:14:14,340 --> 01:14:17,280
From Netscape's point of view, exactly. As a matter of fact, as we move forward.

1407
01:14:17,280 --> 01:14:19,740
So it's sort of a matrix, all the features, what each one has.

1408
01:14:19,840 --> 01:14:21,740
Right. And they also have this page.

1409
01:14:21,740 --> 01:14:26,280
And you can see why he didn't Netscape. He wanted to branch out from this. It was boring.

1410
01:14:26,660 --> 01:14:28,300
Do you know? Real boring stuff.

1411
01:14:29,280 --> 01:14:35,660
And he said as well that some of the programs, the ones that were least interesting to make were the operating systems.

1412
01:14:35,840 --> 01:14:38,900
Trying to make that look interesting was hard, he said.

1413
01:14:39,120 --> 01:14:42,760
Pop the whole thing out of the way and just leave nothing but a tab.

1414
01:14:43,020 --> 01:14:44,740
All right. We don't have a lot of time to do all those.

1415
01:14:44,740 --> 01:14:47,200
Mark, just briefly, what do you really like about what they've done with Communicator?

1416
01:14:47,200 --> 01:14:49,200
I like the integration.

1417
01:14:49,200 --> 01:14:53,200
I like all the different components, the way that they work together.

1418
01:14:53,200 --> 01:14:55,100
They're easily accessible from one another.

1419
01:14:55,660 --> 01:14:59,340
The dynamic HTML implementation, I think, is very smooth, very good.

1420
01:14:59,420 --> 01:14:59,880
Of course, Mike.

1421
01:14:59,880 --> 01:15:00,960
Mark, thank you very much.

1422
01:15:01,580 --> 01:15:02,000
That was me.

1423
01:15:02,000 --> 01:15:10,460
Well, in this corner, the challenger, Microsoft's Internet Explorer 4.0. Is it better than Communicator? Is it the same? Is it really any different? Let's find out.

1424
01:15:10,460 --> 01:15:14,720
And here to show us the new version of Explorer is Jay Goldstein of Microsoft. Welcome, Jay.

1425
01:15:14,720 --> 01:15:15,340
Thank you, Stuart.

1426
01:15:15,340 --> 01:15:21,600
All right. Let's get right to it and focus on what's new about the new version of Explorer and get into the interface and the basics of web browsing.

1427
01:15:21,800 --> 01:15:26,140
Okay. Internet Explorer 4 is designed to give you the web the way you want it. We want it to make things easier for people.

1428
01:15:26,300 --> 01:15:27,520
One of the ways we've done this is in search.

1429
01:15:27,800 --> 01:15:29,840
Jay Goldstein is after you.

1430
01:15:29,840 --> 01:15:30,980
People find difficult right now.

1431
01:15:31,060 --> 01:15:31,340
Okay.

1432
01:15:31,380 --> 01:15:33,040
So I'm going to click on the search button in the browser.

1433
01:15:33,360 --> 01:15:36,460
All right. So if I want to do a search, I've got a search button now built into the browser.

1434
01:15:36,560 --> 01:15:40,920
Exactly. You'll see this left side frame opens up, and you can pick from any of the top search engines that are out there.

1435
01:15:41,060 --> 01:15:43,800
It randomly generates, and this time it happened to come to AltaVista.

1436
01:15:44,280 --> 01:15:46,980
And I'm going to do a search, let's say, on travel, something a lot of people are interested in.

1437
01:15:46,980 --> 01:15:47,220
Okay.

1438
01:15:47,220 --> 01:15:51,260
So I'll click submit, and what happens is you'll get the results here on this left side pane.

1439
01:15:51,520 --> 01:15:53,620
Then you can choose from there which one you want to go to.

1440
01:15:53,700 --> 01:15:56,000
So let's just try the first one, which is something here called Ego Travel.

1441
01:15:56,740 --> 01:15:58,940
And I'll click on that, and you'll see it shows up on the right side.

1442
01:15:59,240 --> 01:16:01,320
All right. Now, what was the little window opened up immediately?

1443
01:16:01,320 --> 01:16:02,360
That's something called a tool tip.

1444
01:16:02,540 --> 01:16:06,800
And what happens is the search engines, the websites actually provide some information about themselves,

1445
01:16:06,920 --> 01:16:08,560
and you can get that information before you...

1446
01:16:08,560 --> 01:16:11,280
This is the big player on the scene, AltaVista Search.

1447
01:16:11,280 --> 01:16:15,640
Back in the day before Google, there was AltaVista, Lycos, Ask Jeeves.

1448
01:16:16,140 --> 01:16:23,160
All the big cats were in town, but they all got crushed by Papa Google,

1449
01:16:23,480 --> 01:16:27,940
who came up with a way of searching the web that nobody had thought about before.

1450
01:16:29,560 --> 01:16:33,400
AltaVista Search, documents matching the query.

1451
01:16:34,600 --> 01:16:38,240
So before they were searching pages that just matched the query,

1452
01:16:38,400 --> 01:16:48,800
but Google came up with a way of giving you the best website based upon the amount of links that people had linked to it from in other sites,

1453
01:16:48,800 --> 01:16:49,760
if I remember correctly.

1454
01:16:49,960 --> 01:16:54,960
I'd really like to see if the Google boys were on this, on Computer Chronicles.

1455
01:16:55,120 --> 01:16:56,160
That would be great to see.

1456
01:16:56,220 --> 01:16:57,420
I'd like to see that interview.

1457
01:16:57,560 --> 01:16:59,080
You click and try and download the page.

1458
01:16:59,080 --> 01:16:59,360
Yeah, okay.

1459
01:16:59,660 --> 01:17:02,660
So now if you want to check out this page, you can just click back off the search button.

1460
01:17:03,000 --> 01:17:06,380
You found some of the best travel information available.

1461
01:17:06,840 --> 01:17:14,960
We comb the web for worthwhile travel links and combine them with our own information to give you a comprehensive destination.

1462
01:17:16,120 --> 01:17:16,480
Information.

1463
01:17:17,040 --> 01:17:18,500
And check it like a regular web page.

1464
01:17:18,840 --> 01:17:21,300
And if you say, gee, this is a good site, but not exactly what I'm looking for.

1465
01:17:21,460 --> 01:17:22,600
Click back on the search button.

1466
01:17:23,100 --> 01:17:24,060
Your results are still here.

1467
01:17:24,180 --> 01:17:29,280
And now you can go to some other site rather than having to worry about going back and forth and downloading those pages.

1468
01:17:29,620 --> 01:17:31,640
Now this is something that we call an explorer bar.

1469
01:17:31,780 --> 01:17:33,560
And we've extended this into a lot of other features.

1470
01:17:33,800 --> 01:17:38,060
One is called History, which keeps track of all the different sites that you've been to over days or weeks or months,

1471
01:17:38,120 --> 01:17:39,440
however you want to set that up.

1472
01:17:39,580 --> 01:17:42,520
And that way when you try and go back to a site that you've been to a couple of weeks ago,

1473
01:17:42,520 --> 01:17:44,700
don't remember the name of it, but you know that you want to get there.

1474
01:17:45,120 --> 01:17:48,340
So I can really set up for a month's worth of web movement.

1475
01:17:48,380 --> 01:17:48,720
That's right.

1476
01:17:48,740 --> 01:17:49,680
If you want to do that.

1477
01:17:49,760 --> 01:17:51,060
We also extend this to Favorites.

1478
01:17:51,060 --> 01:17:54,220
So when people want to find the favorite sites they want to go to, it's easy for them to get there.

1479
01:17:54,440 --> 01:17:59,220
Now you can also check out Favorites from the menu, which is something that people might prefer because it's traditional.

1480
01:17:59,660 --> 01:18:01,400
Now we've extended a couple of great features here.

1481
01:18:01,480 --> 01:18:03,220
One is drag and drop, just like in Win95.

1482
01:18:03,740 --> 01:18:04,740
So I check out Disney here.

1483
01:18:04,820 --> 01:18:06,540
Maybe I want to put this top of my list.

1484
01:18:06,620 --> 01:18:08,000
I can just drag it, and there it goes.

1485
01:18:08,380 --> 01:18:11,700
Another great feature that we have is people can't go back when something is new.

1486
01:18:11,700 --> 01:18:15,260
So what we have now is you can set up your page to download this information.

1487
01:18:15,640 --> 01:18:17,260
It goes out, checks the site, and there's a little gleam there.

1488
01:18:17,260 --> 01:18:18,640
It just tells you if something is new.

1489
01:18:18,720 --> 01:18:19,440
That's a cool feature.

1490
01:18:19,680 --> 01:18:20,460
Let's go into email.

1491
01:18:20,660 --> 01:18:22,480
Thanks very much for the tip there.

1492
01:18:22,560 --> 01:18:23,260
Big fat book.

1493
01:18:23,620 --> 01:18:24,960
Hope you're getting on well.

1494
01:18:25,040 --> 01:18:27,120
Did this internet carry-on ever take off?

1495
01:18:27,700 --> 01:18:29,740
I think it just faded away, to be honest.

1496
01:18:30,200 --> 01:18:33,640
I think it was a flash in the pan scenario.

1497
01:18:34,320 --> 01:18:36,720
What's different about the email here?

1498
01:18:36,720 --> 01:18:38,640
Well, email is totally new in Internet Explorer 4.

1499
01:18:38,700 --> 01:18:40,540
And this is an email program called Outlook Express.

1500
01:18:40,740 --> 01:18:41,700
You can send web pages.

1501
01:18:41,700 --> 01:18:44,980
I think we actually thought that looked class at the time, people, directly from the internet.

1502
01:18:45,080 --> 01:18:45,960
So here I'm on a page.

1503
01:18:46,240 --> 01:18:47,340
I'm going to click on Send Page.

1504
01:18:47,540 --> 01:18:49,960
An email message will open up with that web page in it.

1505
01:18:50,120 --> 01:18:50,820
And there are links in there.

1506
01:18:50,880 --> 01:18:53,520
When people get that web page in email, you can connect directly to the net.

1507
01:18:53,520 --> 01:18:54,900
And so you can just send this to whoever you want.

1508
01:18:54,900 --> 01:18:55,860
Touched his mic there.

1509
01:18:55,900 --> 01:19:00,520
He was very enthusiastic about telling him about the web page action he was doing.

1510
01:19:00,740 --> 01:19:03,460
But he touched his mic and it was an error with the sound.

1511
01:19:03,520 --> 01:19:04,180
And there are links in there.

1512
01:19:04,180 --> 01:19:06,880
And when people get that web page in email, you can connect directly to the net.

1513
01:19:06,880 --> 01:19:07,180
Boom is right.

1514
01:19:07,180 --> 01:19:08,120
Boom is right.

1515
01:19:08,120 --> 01:19:08,580
So you can just send this to whoever you want.

1516
01:19:08,580 --> 01:19:09,000
Boom is right.

1517
01:19:09,000 --> 01:19:17,380
And boom goes the dynamite.

1518
01:19:17,380 --> 01:19:20,560
And you got something cool called stationery here too.

1519
01:19:20,820 --> 01:19:21,200
That's right.

1520
01:19:21,300 --> 01:19:23,600
Stationery allows you to send Christmas cards.

1521
01:19:23,740 --> 01:19:25,900
Now you can do it in email because we provide that technology.

1522
01:19:26,200 --> 01:19:26,600
Rubbish.

1523
01:19:26,600 --> 01:19:28,900
And as you can see very quickly, Outlook Express is designed.

1524
01:19:28,900 --> 01:19:31,040
They're saying the Christmas cards are gone these days.

1525
01:19:31,600 --> 01:19:33,060
People just send WhatsApps now.

1526
01:19:34,960 --> 01:19:36,060
Crazy when you think about it.

1527
01:19:36,620 --> 01:19:38,600
To be very elegant, very easy to view.

1528
01:19:38,700 --> 01:19:40,100
We have something here called the preview pane.

1529
01:19:40,480 --> 01:19:44,140
The preview pane allows you to see those mail messages before you open them up to decide if you want to see it.

1530
01:19:44,480 --> 01:19:46,380
It's here if someone sends you a web page.

1531
01:19:46,620 --> 01:19:48,020
As well, it also works with text-based messages.

1532
01:19:48,040 --> 01:19:48,240
All right.

1533
01:19:48,400 --> 01:19:51,280
Next thing I want you to show me is the channels idea here.

1534
01:19:51,440 --> 01:19:51,960
You got it.

1535
01:19:52,400 --> 01:19:53,620
So we'll click here on the channels button.

1536
01:19:53,620 --> 01:19:53,820
You got it.

1537
01:19:53,820 --> 01:19:54,120
You'll see we...

1538
01:19:54,120 --> 01:19:56,360
I want you to show me is the channels idea here.

1539
01:19:56,520 --> 01:19:57,040
You got it.

1540
01:19:57,420 --> 01:19:58,700
So we'll click here on the channels button.

1541
01:19:58,760 --> 01:20:01,040
You'll see we extended the Explorer Bar metaphor here as well.

1542
01:20:01,040 --> 01:20:06,120
And the idea of channels is that you have a really rich, dynamic experience on the Internet.

1543
01:20:06,280 --> 01:20:07,920
There are thousands of channels that are available.

1544
01:20:08,400 --> 01:20:10,120
And we've shipped with 35 of the top websites.

1545
01:20:10,120 --> 01:20:10,120
All right.

1546
01:20:10,120 --> 01:20:10,640
So that's a...

1547
01:20:10,640 --> 01:20:11,840
Thank you very much there.

1548
01:20:11,920 --> 01:20:14,580
Big fat book says, I touched my mic.

1549
01:20:14,940 --> 01:20:16,020
Mike is my boyfriend.

1550
01:20:16,260 --> 01:20:16,880
Thank you very much.

1551
01:20:16,880 --> 01:20:19,780
It's a predetermined collection of stuff in different topic areas.

1552
01:20:19,880 --> 01:20:23,340
It is predetermined, but you can customize it so you can add or subtract any one that you want.

1553
01:20:23,340 --> 01:20:24,200
So let's go to a channel.

1554
01:20:24,300 --> 01:20:24,860
What would that look like?

1555
01:20:24,900 --> 01:20:25,040
Sure.

1556
01:20:25,120 --> 01:20:27,660
Well, we launched with lots of great ones like Wall Street Journal, New York Times.

1557
01:20:27,840 --> 01:20:30,540
And I'll show you the Warner Brothers one because they've actually done a very nice job here.

1558
01:20:30,820 --> 01:20:33,280
So I'm going to click on the channels button so you can come on to the full screen.

1559
01:20:33,720 --> 01:20:35,900
And you'll see the information will now load.

1560
01:20:35,960 --> 01:20:38,200
And you'll see this really rich information that they provide.

1561
01:20:38,500 --> 01:20:40,240
And in fact, we have something called the full screen feature.

1562
01:20:40,520 --> 01:20:43,320
I'll click on that and it lets the entire web screen be taken over by the channel.

1563
01:20:43,320 --> 01:20:47,920
So again, lots more multimedia emphasis or richer kind of user experience.

1564
01:20:48,000 --> 01:20:48,280
Exactly.

1565
01:20:48,440 --> 01:20:50,240
And here's some of the fun that Warner Brothers has on their site.

1566
01:20:50,300 --> 01:20:51,940
You'll see as I drag my mouse over these things.

1567
01:20:54,140 --> 01:20:55,940
I was like, we don't have time to watch the whole cartoon.

1568
01:20:56,320 --> 01:20:57,100
Very well done.

1569
01:20:57,160 --> 01:20:57,680
Thank you, Jay.

1570
01:20:58,960 --> 01:20:59,880
Classic Stu.

1571
01:21:00,260 --> 01:21:02,400
Your man wanted to show him some fun stuff.

1572
01:21:03,120 --> 01:21:05,240
We don't want to watch any more of your shit.

1573
01:21:05,520 --> 01:21:06,380
Sorry, guys.

1574
01:21:06,460 --> 01:21:07,080
We got to go.

1575
01:21:07,160 --> 01:21:07,680
See you later.

1576
01:21:08,720 --> 01:21:09,440
He knew it looks.

1577
01:21:09,580 --> 01:21:10,780
Stu knew this was rubbish.

1578
01:21:11,380 --> 01:21:13,180
So he was like, fuck this.

1579
01:21:13,240 --> 01:21:13,860
We're out of here.

1580
01:21:14,060 --> 01:21:14,340
Exactly.

1581
01:21:14,560 --> 01:21:15,860
And here's some of the fun that Warner Brothers has.

1582
01:21:15,940 --> 01:21:17,480
Look, Stu wanted to go then.

1583
01:21:17,700 --> 01:21:19,360
Stu wanted to say I'm off now.

1584
01:21:19,660 --> 01:21:21,500
But your man got in there with his rubbish.

1585
01:21:21,720 --> 01:21:25,020
Media emphasis or richer kind of user experience.

1586
01:21:25,080 --> 01:21:25,400
Exactly.

1587
01:21:26,160 --> 01:21:28,780
Look, Stu's about to say, all right.

1588
01:21:28,880 --> 01:21:29,840
Thanks very much.

1589
01:21:30,620 --> 01:21:32,320
Here's some of the fun that Warner Brothers has on their site.

1590
01:21:32,380 --> 01:21:34,000
You'll see as I drag my mouse over these things.

1591
01:21:36,300 --> 01:21:38,340
We don't have time to watch the whole cartoon, okay?

1592
01:21:38,520 --> 01:21:39,180
Very well done.

1593
01:21:39,240 --> 01:21:39,780
Thank you, Jay.

1594
01:21:40,140 --> 01:21:40,520
All right.

1595
01:21:40,580 --> 01:21:42,100
Well, so far we've...

1596
01:21:42,100 --> 01:21:48,260
That's what it has on their site.

1597
01:21:48,320 --> 01:21:49,960
You'll see as I drag my mouse over these things.

1598
01:21:52,380 --> 01:21:52,660
That's it.

1599
01:21:52,660 --> 01:21:54,260
We don't have time to watch the whole cartoon, okay?

1600
01:21:54,440 --> 01:21:55,120
Very well done.

1601
01:21:55,180 --> 01:21:55,720
Thank you, Jay.

1602
01:21:55,820 --> 01:21:56,000
Okay.

1603
01:21:56,480 --> 01:21:58,640
All right.

1604
01:21:58,700 --> 01:22:01,580
All right.

1605
01:22:01,620 --> 01:22:04,540
Well, so far we've heard from two experts on the two different browsers.

1606
01:22:04,960 --> 01:22:12,260
Next, we thought we would talk to two big-time Net users to see what they like or dislike about each of the new browsers from Netscape and Microsoft.

1607
01:22:14,020 --> 01:22:16,160
Megan Caron is a senior at Stanford University.

1608
01:22:16,160 --> 01:22:17,080
Megan Caron is a senior at Stanford University.

1609
01:22:17,080 --> 01:22:23,660
She has barely enough time in the day to complete her coursework, prepare for exams, and apply to law school.

1610
01:22:23,660 --> 01:22:26,300
What she doing as well as all that.

1611
01:22:26,300 --> 01:22:32,360
But Megan has an assistant to remind her of when to file papers and how to prepare for exams.

1612
01:22:32,360 --> 01:22:32,980
Right.

1613
01:22:32,980 --> 01:22:38,720
It comes to her through the Kaplan Educational Center's website using Microsoft push channels.

1614
01:22:38,720 --> 01:22:46,100
You know, I'm really busy doing my, writing my thesis, taking, you know, midterms, working my job here so that I...

1615
01:22:46,100 --> 01:22:48,380
That's a strange way of spelling that name, Cochran.

1616
01:22:49,160 --> 01:22:50,040
Look at the way it's spelled.

1617
01:22:52,560 --> 01:22:59,840
I don't have time to go to the library and sit down in front of a computer for hours just going through all the different web pages.

1618
01:23:00,000 --> 01:23:05,580
It's so nice to have information that's tailored to me available at the push of a button.

1619
01:23:05,580 --> 01:23:11,680
The Kaplan edge provides Megan with several categories of information that is specific to law schools.

1620
01:23:12,220 --> 01:23:13,420
Kaplan decided...

1621
01:23:13,420 --> 01:23:17,520
Oh, it's Kaplan. How the fuck does that say Kaplan? Did they fuck that up?

1622
01:23:19,920 --> 01:23:24,020
Her name is Kaplan, but that's what they've put on the strand look.

1623
01:23:24,880 --> 01:23:27,260
Cochran. How are you, Cochran?

1624
01:23:28,980 --> 01:23:31,040
They fucked it up big time.

1625
01:23:34,460 --> 01:23:38,140
Thank you very much, Megan, for the tip. I hope you're getting on well there.

1626
01:23:38,780 --> 01:23:50,400
Writing my thesis, taking, you know, midterms, working my job here so that I don't have time to go to the library and sit down in front of a computer for hours just going through all the different web pages.

1627
01:23:50,520 --> 01:23:51,800
It's so nice to have...

1628
01:23:51,800 --> 01:23:53,060
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1629
01:23:53,060 --> 01:23:56,100
...information that's tailored to me available at the push of a button.

1630
01:23:56,100 --> 01:24:02,160
The Kaplan edge provides Megan with several categories of information that is specific to law schools.

1631
01:24:02,960 --> 01:24:03,960
Kaplan decided...

1632
01:24:03,960 --> 01:24:05,480
She's saying Kaplan.

1633
01:24:07,180 --> 01:24:08,620
Cochran on the thing, isn't it?

1634
01:24:08,740 --> 01:24:16,940
...use Microsoft's Internet Explorer instead of Netscape because of the browser's push channels and its interactive abilities.

1635
01:24:17,320 --> 01:24:17,620
And...

1636
01:24:17,620 --> 01:24:20,340
One great thing that Internet Explorer offers...

1637
01:24:20,340 --> 01:24:20,720
Wow.

1638
01:24:21,260 --> 01:24:21,800
Here, look.

1639
01:24:22,280 --> 01:24:22,660
Kaplan.

1640
01:24:22,820 --> 01:24:24,380
Oh, she's talking about this fella.

1641
01:24:24,720 --> 01:24:25,080
Kaplan.

1642
01:24:26,200 --> 01:24:27,740
Okay, right, I get you now.

1643
01:24:28,080 --> 01:24:31,780
I thought that she was calling Cochran Kaplan.

1644
01:24:32,140 --> 01:24:33,480
Thank you very much there, Megan.

1645
01:24:34,280 --> 01:24:42,320
And this fella's got a super collarless top-button scenario going on there.

1646
01:24:43,200 --> 01:24:44,080
Check that out.

1647
01:24:45,760 --> 01:24:46,800
What'd you think of that, Tom?

1648
01:24:46,820 --> 01:24:47,420
Are you still watching?

1649
01:24:48,380 --> 01:24:48,680
Hello.

1650
01:24:49,420 --> 01:24:51,880
What'd you think of that shirt your man's watching there?

1651
01:24:54,140 --> 01:24:54,620
Skotter.

1652
01:24:55,980 --> 01:24:56,600
Thanks, Tom.

1653
01:24:56,600 --> 01:25:00,760
...is some terrific linkages with some other Windows technology.

1654
01:25:01,480 --> 01:25:04,720
So there's great visual transitions you can do.

1655
01:25:05,140 --> 01:25:08,660
They have a connection with their agent technology for speech.

1656
01:25:09,140 --> 01:25:12,740
And we've been able to use these to make a very lively-looking, beautiful channel.

1657
01:25:13,120 --> 01:25:16,760
And in particular, we've implemented flashcards, which can appear on your screen.

1658
01:25:17,000 --> 01:25:19,780
And they can even be spoken by one of the agent characters.

1659
01:25:20,520 --> 01:25:21,100
The word is berate.

1660
01:25:21,480 --> 01:25:22,200
It means to scold...

1661
01:25:22,200 --> 01:25:27,360
While Kaplan is an active channel partner with Microsoft, the company plans to...

1662
01:25:27,360 --> 01:25:28,380
Bizarre shit.

1663
01:25:28,460 --> 01:25:30,560
Have a little look at this bizarre stuff.

1664
01:25:31,700 --> 01:25:33,520
The word is berate.

1665
01:25:33,660 --> 01:25:35,240
Let me see if I can get that voice up there.

1666
01:25:36,240 --> 01:25:37,620
The word is berate.

1667
01:25:37,620 --> 01:25:39,520
It means to scold hardly.

1668
01:25:39,520 --> 01:25:41,520
While Kaplan is an active...

1669
01:25:41,520 --> 01:25:42,900
Or instance...

1670
01:25:42,900 --> 01:25:44,820
For instance, the teacher...

1671
01:25:44,820 --> 01:25:45,520
...channel partner...

1672
01:25:45,520 --> 01:25:47,440
Berated his students...

1673
01:25:47,440 --> 01:25:48,700
Partner with Microsoft...

1674
01:25:48,700 --> 01:25:50,360
...for doing so poorly...

1675
01:25:50,360 --> 01:25:51,520
...on their exams...

1676
01:25:51,520 --> 01:25:55,520
...the company plans to offer Netscape communicator channels as well.

1677
01:25:56,260 --> 01:25:59,020
Thank you very much, Skotterology, for the tip there.

1678
01:25:59,200 --> 01:26:00,980
Mac Addict Magazine is a...

1679
01:26:00,980 --> 01:26:02,860
Mac Addict Magazine, guys.

1680
01:26:03,020 --> 01:26:03,520
Mac Addict...

1681
01:26:04,320 --> 01:26:05,520
...magazine coming right up.

1682
01:26:05,520 --> 01:26:05,660
...cannels as well.

1683
01:26:06,580 --> 01:26:12,980
Mac Addict Magazine is another company trying to balance their own browser preference with their customers' demands.

1684
01:26:13,780 --> 01:26:16,600
Mac Addict chose Netscape for their Mac website.

1685
01:26:17,360 --> 01:26:19,100
Primarily, it's performance.

1686
01:26:19,460 --> 01:26:21,480
And that sounds a little weird when you're sitting on a...

1687
01:26:21,480 --> 01:26:21,860
It's a lovely situation.

1688
01:26:22,480 --> 01:26:24,280
It's a beautiful situation.

1689
01:26:24,480 --> 01:26:28,560
In the speed of rendering a page between one browser and another.

1690
01:26:29,320 --> 01:26:31,200
It makes a definite improvement in...

1691
01:26:31,200 --> 01:26:32,340
Colorless...

1692
01:26:32,340 --> 01:26:34,060
Top-button shirts.

1693
01:26:34,440 --> 01:26:35,540
All the rage.

1694
01:26:35,820 --> 01:26:37,120
Back in those days.

1695
01:26:37,760 --> 01:26:39,660
Thank you very much, Dam Damo.

1696
01:26:40,100 --> 01:26:41,180
Thank you very much for the tip.

1697
01:26:41,180 --> 01:26:41,840
...quality of life.

1698
01:26:43,440 --> 01:26:46,720
My browser of choice, actually, is Netscape Navigator 3.

1699
01:26:46,720 --> 01:26:50,720
Mac Addict has a special interest in Netscape's cross-platform abilities...

1700
01:26:50,720 --> 01:26:56,120
...and some reservations about an Explorer programming feature called ActiveX.

1701
01:26:56,120 --> 01:27:01,340
You point to an ActiveX control which has been compiled for a specific processor...

1702
01:27:01,340 --> 01:27:03,120
...whether it's Pentium or PowerPC...

1703
01:27:03,120 --> 01:27:08,120
...and there is no provision to divert you to a different executable...

1704
01:27:08,120 --> 01:27:09,800
...depending on your platform.

1705
01:27:10,200 --> 01:27:13,520
So if somebody puts an ActiveX control in their web page...

1706
01:27:13,520 --> 01:27:20,860
...you know, odds massively, 90% is that they're going to link to the Windows version of that.

1707
01:27:21,280 --> 01:27:23,600
And if you as a Mac user come along, you see nothing.

1708
01:27:23,940 --> 01:27:25,740
It's just a sort of real thumb in the eye.

1709
01:27:25,900 --> 01:27:26,780
You are not dominant.

1710
01:27:26,980 --> 01:27:28,160
You do not have market share.

1711
01:27:28,760 --> 01:27:31,560
For the Computer Chronicles, I'm Sarah O'Brien.

1712
01:27:32,000 --> 01:27:35,840
Cool graphics for the new issue of Mac Addict Magazine.

1713
01:27:36,000 --> 01:27:37,140
We got a splat.

1714
01:27:37,840 --> 01:27:40,680
Okay, guys, we're going to go for a splat this month.

1715
01:27:41,580 --> 01:27:44,100
Big pink splat on the front there.

1716
01:27:44,440 --> 01:27:48,500
I want you to get me the rough and readies on those by 4 p.m.

1717
01:27:48,500 --> 01:27:49,300
Ben, what do you got?

1718
01:27:55,080 --> 01:27:58,320
Kind of gone for a gack splat splooge.

1719
01:27:58,320 --> 01:28:07,900
Fuck!

1720
01:28:10,000 --> 01:28:10,400
Wow!

1721
01:28:10,760 --> 01:28:11,660
Who's this Patrick Bateman?

1722
01:28:11,660 --> 01:28:13,580
Well, no matter which browser you end up using...

1723
01:28:13,580 --> 01:28:15,860
Who's this Patrick Bateman coming right up?

1724
01:28:15,940 --> 01:28:20,020
...thing you're still going to have to deal with multimedia issues and audio or video streaming.

1725
01:28:20,280 --> 01:28:22,340
How do these two browsers handle streaming?

1726
01:28:22,460 --> 01:28:26,940
To find the answer to that question, we've invited Philip Rosedale of Real Networks to join us.

1727
01:28:27,000 --> 01:28:29,360
And you guys, of course, do real audio and real video and so on.

1728
01:28:29,880 --> 01:28:35,040
Is it any easier to do this darn streaming stuff with IE4 and with Communicator 4?

1729
01:28:35,840 --> 01:28:39,000
Are you trying to seduce me, Mr. Rosedale?

1730
01:28:39,300 --> 01:28:45,300
Say, in short, the one thing that is easier about it is that we're always trying to find new ways to get our players out to people.

1731
01:28:45,420 --> 01:28:48,040
So you have the player that you need to watch streaming media.

1732
01:28:48,620 --> 01:28:53,480
If you get the new IE4 browser now, you actually get our player as a part of that browser.

1733
01:28:53,480 --> 01:28:55,540
So I don't have to separately pull that plugin down.

1734
01:28:55,540 --> 01:28:55,940
That's correct.

1735
01:28:56,040 --> 01:28:57,260
So that is one thing that's easier.

1736
01:28:57,320 --> 01:28:58,480
Now, is that true with Communicator?

1737
01:28:58,480 --> 01:28:59,480
Look at that jacket.

1738
01:29:00,540 --> 01:29:01,340
Swag Dad.

1739
01:29:01,860 --> 01:29:04,480
All the way from fucking Swag Dad Market.

1740
01:29:05,540 --> 01:29:09,580
And Jacques Chirac's Iraq Wardrobe Closet.

1741
01:29:10,720 --> 01:29:13,800
It's a lovely ensemble from Stu.

1742
01:29:14,520 --> 01:29:19,460
With the powder blue shirt tucked into those chinos.

1743
01:29:20,020 --> 01:29:21,040
Leather belt.

1744
01:29:21,920 --> 01:29:28,000
And some kind of groovy kind of frame watch or something.

1745
01:29:28,160 --> 01:29:30,020
Like a kind of a lady's watch, is it?

1746
01:29:30,120 --> 01:29:37,920
Or is it kind of an early precursor to the digital wearable tech that we see so predominantly now in the world?

1747
01:29:38,480 --> 01:29:39,140
Communicator or not?

1748
01:29:39,380 --> 01:29:41,260
It's not currently true with Communicator.

1749
01:29:41,260 --> 01:29:46,240
We have a bundle with Internet Explorer that puts us in that installer.

1750
01:29:47,000 --> 01:29:48,440
We don't have the same...

1751
01:29:48,440 --> 01:29:49,360
Schlug Shining.

1752
01:29:49,480 --> 01:29:50,320
Thank you very much.

1753
01:29:50,460 --> 01:29:54,960
At the moment, if I need to do real audio or real video stuff, it is in fact easier to do in an Explorer.

1754
01:29:55,740 --> 01:29:57,180
I would say that it...

1755
01:29:57,180 --> 01:29:57,800
One last step.

1756
01:29:57,840 --> 01:29:59,340
Download Explorer, you get it.

1757
01:29:59,440 --> 01:30:03,260
But of course, the behavior of streaming media in the browsers is basically the same.

1758
01:30:03,340 --> 01:30:04,640
We work very hard to make it the same.

1759
01:30:04,640 --> 01:30:05,840
Well, that's what I want to look at.

1760
01:30:05,900 --> 01:30:07,400
You've got your page up here.

1761
01:30:07,460 --> 01:30:07,900
Let's take a look.

1762
01:30:07,920 --> 01:30:09,600
First of all, how good are we now?

1763
01:30:09,640 --> 01:30:11,860
You've got 5.0 of real audio and video out there.

1764
01:30:12,100 --> 01:30:15,060
Let's show us what the streaming looks like in terms of looking at some audio and video.

1765
01:30:15,140 --> 01:30:22,520
Well, one of the fun things with 5.0 that I'll show you here is we're able to now do animation, which is a good way at 28.8 modem speeds to...

1766
01:30:22,520 --> 01:30:23,620
Pretty fun stuff.

1767
01:30:24,440 --> 01:30:26,740
Playback quality that you just can't get with video.

1768
01:30:26,740 --> 01:30:27,580
Yeah, let's take a look at it.

1769
01:30:27,700 --> 01:30:28,700
So let's take a look at one of these.

1770
01:30:28,700 --> 01:30:29,460
The Looney Tunes here.

1771
01:30:29,460 --> 01:30:30,460
The Tim Robbins, exactly.

1772
01:30:30,660 --> 01:30:32,500
There's a Tim Robbins vibe here.

1773
01:30:32,500 --> 01:30:35,200
So we're actually dialed in on a 28.8 modem right now.

1774
01:30:35,240 --> 01:30:37,580
Steve's not wearing shoes, says Jimmy.

1775
01:30:37,700 --> 01:30:38,120
Very real.

1776
01:30:38,620 --> 01:30:39,300
Very real.

1777
01:30:39,300 --> 01:30:39,780
Look at this.

1778
01:30:40,160 --> 01:30:44,560
A whopping 20 kilobytes per second clip in the Real Player Plus.

1779
01:30:45,180 --> 01:30:47,400
That's an 8 second at 22 KBS.

1780
01:30:47,620 --> 01:30:50,200
Hold on to your fucking hats, guys.

1781
01:30:52,280 --> 01:30:54,620
Okay, we've got 22 KBS open here.

1782
01:30:55,060 --> 01:30:59,960
So a kid could go online now and watch a cartoon in the same way the kid might have watched the cartoon.

1783
01:31:00,180 --> 01:31:02,120
Hey, didn't want to watch that cartoon earlier on.

1784
01:31:02,180 --> 01:31:03,840
The Daffy Duck had no time for it.

1785
01:31:03,840 --> 01:31:04,000
Exactly.

1786
01:31:05,200 --> 01:31:05,840
Oh, God.

1787
01:31:07,680 --> 01:31:08,120
Jesus.

1788
01:31:08,280 --> 01:31:09,740
So this is all bugs and Looney Tunes.

1789
01:31:10,140 --> 01:31:11,660
You're actually doing a little trick here, right?

1790
01:31:11,740 --> 01:31:13,460
Because the file is still loading.

1791
01:31:13,960 --> 01:31:14,580
Some of them, yeah.

1792
01:31:15,480 --> 01:31:21,320
The file is still loaded, so they play an extended version of the Merry Melodies Looney Tunes intro.

1793
01:31:21,880 --> 01:31:24,320
You get a chance to load some of the character data and stuff.

1794
01:31:24,320 --> 01:31:27,440
So get a little piece up there, keep the kid busy, and then while you're loading the rest of the file.

1795
01:31:27,720 --> 01:31:30,640
But basically, you can do...

1796
01:31:30,640 --> 01:31:34,320
All right, so again, this is, you know, pretty good quality cartoon animations.

1797
01:31:34,580 --> 01:31:36,960
And compared to what you can do with video,

1798
01:31:37,060 --> 01:31:40,020
if you tried to take this same cartoon and just compress it as real video,

1799
01:31:40,020 --> 01:31:42,520
it wouldn't look as good at 28-8.

1800
01:31:42,520 --> 01:31:47,320
But this is a way, if you want to do the authoring, to do something really amazing for 28-8 Motive.

1801
01:31:47,360 --> 01:31:49,620
To take the animation approach rather than the video approach.

1802
01:31:49,620 --> 01:31:49,820
Exactly.

1803
01:31:50,100 --> 01:31:51,260
Of course, we support both.

1804
01:31:51,340 --> 01:31:52,900
Real Video came out earlier this year.

1805
01:31:53,060 --> 01:31:55,060
But Real Flash, which is a...

1806
01:31:55,060 --> 01:31:57,900
This is actually a product that we made in conjunction with Macromedia,

1807
01:31:57,900 --> 01:32:01,700
using technology that most people have experienced on websites, Flash,

1808
01:32:02,160 --> 01:32:05,060
and combining it with real audio, synchronizing it...

1809
01:32:05,060 --> 01:32:08,060
Andy Dufresne, Andy Dufresne.

1810
01:32:13,560 --> 01:32:16,400
The Shawshank Browser Redemption Man.

1811
01:32:17,380 --> 01:32:22,860
Websites flash and combining it with real audio, synchronizing it and creating something like this.

1812
01:32:22,860 --> 01:32:24,880
Let's go back and there was another clip that is a little more...

1813
01:32:24,880 --> 01:32:27,920
A lovely bit of stew cutting people off there, just don't know if you heard that.

1814
01:32:28,160 --> 01:32:28,440
All right.

1815
01:32:28,440 --> 01:32:31,280
...with real audio, synchronizing it and creating something like this.

1816
01:32:31,280 --> 01:32:34,400
All right, let's go back and there was another clip that is a little more video-ish.

1817
01:32:34,600 --> 01:32:35,000
Right.

1818
01:32:35,000 --> 01:32:36,920
That's that Gattaca clip you have up there.

1819
01:32:36,980 --> 01:32:38,400
So let's kind of run that one and see what...

1820
01:32:38,400 --> 01:32:40,000
Thank you very much there for the tip.

1821
01:32:40,540 --> 01:32:42,200
Quasi-quartings-quasar.

1822
01:32:43,320 --> 01:32:45,320
Quasi-quartings-quasar.

1823
01:32:46,020 --> 01:32:48,200
Quasi-quartings-quasar.

1824
01:32:48,780 --> 01:32:49,900
Thank you for the tip.

1825
01:32:50,180 --> 01:32:50,860
That would look like.

1826
01:32:51,160 --> 01:32:53,940
Again, we're in which browser right now?

1827
01:32:54,060 --> 01:32:55,760
We're actually in Netscape right now.

1828
01:32:55,760 --> 01:32:56,380
We're in Netscape at the moment.

1829
01:32:56,380 --> 01:32:57,260
So we're in Communicator 4.

1830
01:32:57,500 --> 01:32:59,240
I'm going to jump now just to our player.

1831
01:32:59,380 --> 01:33:05,380
Of course, with our technology, you can also just watch media in the player itself, which is actually the way we started.

1832
01:33:05,580 --> 01:33:05,780
Right.

1833
01:33:05,860 --> 01:33:09,780
So this is a movie trailer that's the same technology.

1834
01:33:09,940 --> 01:33:13,240
It's the same animation technology, but it looks kind of different.

1835
01:33:13,320 --> 01:33:14,660
It has a sort of a different flavor.

1836
01:33:15,080 --> 01:33:15,300
All right.

1837
01:33:15,360 --> 01:33:16,580
So a little more video.

1838
01:33:17,300 --> 01:33:18,380
Real TV is looking here.

1839
01:33:18,460 --> 01:33:18,580
Right.

1840
01:33:20,180 --> 01:33:23,420
You can't even hear it and you can't even read it.

1841
01:33:23,540 --> 01:33:24,440
It's terrible stuff.

1842
01:33:24,520 --> 01:33:25,440
A clone named Gibson.

1843
01:33:25,600 --> 01:33:26,360
Thank you very much.

1844
01:33:26,600 --> 01:33:28,260
Happy birthday to Sarah there.

1845
01:33:28,340 --> 01:33:29,780
I hope you're getting on well, Sarah.

1846
01:33:29,900 --> 01:33:30,200
Tommy?

1847
01:33:31,160 --> 01:33:31,740
How are you getting on?

1848
01:33:31,800 --> 01:33:33,020
Happy birthday there to Sarah.

1849
01:33:33,540 --> 01:33:34,280
Hope you're doing well.

1850
01:33:34,360 --> 01:33:35,520
Thanks very much for the tip.

1851
01:33:35,600 --> 01:33:36,240
Clone named Gibson.

1852
01:33:37,180 --> 01:33:37,560
Good man.

1853
01:33:38,420 --> 01:33:39,480
Thanks very much there, Tom.

1854
01:33:39,580 --> 01:33:43,820
And again, this is a file we would have downloaded earlier and you're just playing it back inside the real player.

1855
01:33:43,820 --> 01:33:45,140
Right. And this is something that in 10 seconds...

1856
01:33:45,140 --> 01:33:46,380
To choose the gene.

1857
01:33:46,660 --> 01:33:47,700
Choose the gene.

1858
01:33:48,000 --> 01:33:48,800
Choose the gene.

1859
01:33:48,840 --> 01:33:51,640
...starts up streaming and then can play for 10 minutes if you like.

1860
01:33:51,640 --> 01:33:57,980
All right. So, Philip, quickly, does it matter from my point of view as an end user whether I'm looking at your streaming stuff in Explorer or Communicator?

1861
01:33:58,280 --> 01:34:00,180
It really doesn't matter as an end user.

1862
01:34:00,400 --> 01:34:05,000
We work very hard to make sure that regardless of what system you're coming in on, you have the same experience.

1863
01:34:05,000 --> 01:34:08,400
Quickly, does it matter as a designer which environment I'm developing in?

1864
01:34:08,860 --> 01:34:09,980
It does not matter.

1865
01:34:10,580 --> 01:34:13,060
There is a different paradigm for building...

1866
01:34:13,060 --> 01:34:14,800
Thanks, Schlippi, for the tipping.

1867
01:34:14,800 --> 01:34:19,640
The Internet Explorer uses ActiveX as the technology that you use to embed things into pages.

1868
01:34:20,120 --> 01:34:22,620
And Netscape, on the other hand, uses plug-in technology.

1869
01:34:22,620 --> 01:34:22,620
Right.

1870
01:34:22,620 --> 01:34:27,320
As an author, you have to essentially write little segments of your pages for both.

1871
01:34:27,320 --> 01:34:28,700
But the end result would be the same.

1872
01:34:28,700 --> 01:34:30,320
The end result looks the same to the user.

1873
01:34:30,320 --> 01:34:31,080
All right. Thank you, Philip.

1874
01:34:31,520 --> 01:34:35,480
Well, there are two sides to a browser, the client side and the server side.

1875
01:34:35,480 --> 01:34:39,060
And so far, we've been focusing on the client or end user's perspective.

1876
01:34:39,060 --> 01:34:42,620
But what do web designers think about Communicator and Explorer?

1877
01:34:42,620 --> 01:34:45,720
We visited one big web design company to find out.

1878
01:34:45,720 --> 01:34:46,520
Nintendo Game Boy.

1879
01:34:47,600 --> 01:34:56,020
Construct is a web design company in San Francisco that promotes functional design from simple, flat interfaces to three-dimensional worlds.

1880
01:34:56,020 --> 01:34:59,500
The company has worked with both Netscape and Microsoft.

1881
01:35:00,200 --> 01:35:02,680
Browsers are our publishing medium.

1882
01:35:02,980 --> 01:35:05,060
It's a lovely, lovely Waldrop.

1883
01:35:05,680 --> 01:35:07,400
Lovely, lovely Waldrop.

1884
01:35:08,400 --> 01:35:10,740
Mark Kermode, thank you very much there.

1885
01:35:10,740 --> 01:35:15,480
Mark Kermode, thank you very much there. As we move in to the world of Waldrop.

1886
01:35:16,820 --> 01:35:22,820
What did he know? What did he do? Who is he? He is Waldrop.

1887
01:35:22,820 --> 01:35:31,020
They're our machine. So when other people write to a piece to Win95 or to Macintosh, we write to a browser.

1888
01:35:31,020 --> 01:35:39,440
Construct has built active, lively web pages for Travelocity's airline booking service and Netscape's channel finder.

1889
01:35:39,440 --> 01:35:45,440
The animated features of both came from a recent advance in web programming called Dynamic HTML.

1890
01:35:45,440 --> 01:35:53,860
I personally think that Dynamic HTML is a very fundamental difference from what you've seen before.

1891
01:35:54,240 --> 01:35:57,520
And a lot of that's due to the competition between Microsoft and Netscape.

1892
01:35:57,860 --> 01:35:58,040
Oh, yeah?

1893
01:35:58,040 --> 01:35:58,920
A lot of the movement there.

1894
01:35:59,900 --> 01:36:08,660
Specifically, you can build real applications now on the Internet, whereas before the metaphor was pages and more magazine content.

1895
01:36:08,660 --> 01:36:11,960
Now the metaphor for us is applications and application design.

1896
01:36:11,960 --> 01:36:18,960
But the benefits of competition between Netscape and Microsoft are tempered by the two browsers' incompatibilities.

1897
01:36:18,960 --> 01:36:21,160
For a feature design for each site.

1898
01:36:21,160 --> 01:36:26,460
Here we go. This is the man with the ergonomic keyboard. It's a crazy bit of business. It's a lovely bit of business.

1899
01:36:26,460 --> 01:36:34,920
He's got a couple of juggling balls. Just a few juggling balls left on his side there. Just for when a bit of downtime starts to happen.

1900
01:36:34,920 --> 01:36:45,000
Throws those balls in the air. Has a good time. Has a blast. Has a little think about what he's going to be doing on that sensual fucking curved keyboard.

1901
01:36:45,220 --> 01:36:50,040
Coriolis effect. Fucking giving me vertigo. Just looking at it going round.

1902
01:36:51,040 --> 01:36:57,040
And a real big fat pair of cans as well for when business gets legit.

1903
01:36:57,040 --> 01:37:04,600
Thanks very much to Yerti Ahern for your kind-hearted and generous tip. It's very nice of you to do that now.

1904
01:37:04,760 --> 01:37:15,840
To offer features specific to each browser. Their design for Microsoft's VRML site, for example, makes use of Internet Explorer's integrated 3D browser.

1905
01:37:15,840 --> 01:37:20,840
No way! It is an example of designing the interface around the content.

1906
01:37:20,840 --> 01:37:26,840
The content has a better interface and so it's more accessible to the user in a way that it hasn't been before.

1907
01:37:26,840 --> 01:37:37,920
So now instead of scrolling through a long, long, long story to get to the bottom of that one piece of information you wanted, now you can say I'm only interested in the information that's relevant to me.

1908
01:37:37,920 --> 01:37:40,400
For the Computer Chronicles, I'm Sarah O'Brien.

1909
01:37:40,400 --> 01:37:41,400
Sarah...

1910
01:37:41,400 --> 01:37:43,660
Who's that lad?

1911
01:37:43,660 --> 01:37:49,000
Now you can say I'm only interested in the information that's relevant to me.

1912
01:37:49,000 --> 01:37:52,340
For the Computer Chronicles, I'm Sarah O'Brien.

1913
01:37:52,340 --> 01:37:55,000
For the...

1914
01:37:55,000 --> 01:37:56,000
wanted. Now-

1915
01:38:17,240 --> 01:38:23,960
Tonight at nine on dispatches. Who was that? And why were they doing that?

1916
01:38:23,960 --> 01:38:53,800
On the road. Not as good that one. Didn't like the way that one fucking faded out. Sorry about that. Fuck! Sorry about the bad language. Well, made up your mind yet? No? Okay, let's try to break the tie here to help us do that. That was a nice one. Amy Helen Johnson. Made up your mind?

1917
01:38:53,800 --> 01:38:55,800
No? Okay.

1918
01:38:59,800 --> 01:39:11,800
Well, made up your mind yet? No? Okay, let's try to break the tie here to help us do that is Amy Helen Johnson, Senior Technology Editor with Windows Magazine. Sort of bottom line question. Are there any real significant differences from a-

1919
01:39:11,800 --> 01:39:33,800
And she's double-bricking on the brick tops. Shitting fucking bricks. About to be interrogated by the best in the biz. Stu baby Shafay. He got questions and he don't care what you gotta say. Thank you very much for the tip there. E-C-S-A-Q-T. Thank you very much for your kind hearted and generous tip. I'm not even on the screen. Thank you very much for your kind hearted and generous tip.

1920
01:39:33,800 --> 01:39:51,800
A user's point of view between working in Explorer and working in Communicator. I wouldn't say they're significant. They're small differences that have more to do with how you prefer to work on the internet. All right, let's talk about one at a time. I'm browsing the web. Not much. Not much different. I'm doing email. No, not much different. So what's different?

1921
01:39:51,800 --> 01:40:19,800
And look at Stu. Stu doesn't like it when people give him this sort of short shrift. So look at the attitude change on Stu here. All right, what do you want to fucking tell me? So what's different? A bit of a fucking smile there. Indignant. Indignant Stu. It's one of my favorite pieces of Stu action I've ever seen.

1922
01:40:19,800 --> 01:40:38,800
Have more to do with how you prefer to work on the internet. All right, let's talk about one at a time. I'm browsing the web. Not much. Not much different. I'm doing email. No, not much different. So what's different? Well, it comes down to things like the subscription and the channel capabilities and also in their conferencing capabilities. And what's the difference? Well, Annette's...

1923
01:40:38,800 --> 01:40:47,300
He still is like a dog with a bone. He's not going to let her off with this. She's trying to make a tit of him and he's going to fucking make a tit of her.

1924
01:40:47,800 --> 01:41:08,260
Annette's conference does not accept video cameras. Net meeting. However, if you want to see your grandkids or see your things. Explorer version. Yeah. Explorer version. Thank you very much. Not much different. Then you'll have to be using it. All right. So that's a big plus for Explorer. Want to see your grandkids or see your things. Explorer version. Yeah. Then you'll have to be using it. All right. So that's a big plus for Explorer if you want to do video. Mm-hmm. Okay. Any others?

1925
01:41:08,260 --> 01:41:16,920
Well, if you come down to the push, it has more to do actually on the implementation on the server side. So it's really the server designer side in which it's different, not so much the end user.

1926
01:41:17,140 --> 01:41:23,080
Well, what you have to make sure is that if there is a channel that you want, you have to be using the browser that will allow you to see that channel.

1927
01:41:23,340 --> 01:41:24,540
Oh, so it's still kind of complicated.

1928
01:41:24,540 --> 01:41:35,540
Your grandkids, the shade says Scumbelina. And look, he doesn't like that as well. Was that a bit of shade thrown at Stu? He didn't like the grandkids remark. Ah, no.

1929
01:41:35,540 --> 01:41:52,560
But this lady seemingly doesn't have the social mores that Stu has or, well, let's say Stu might not be a fucking perfect example. I mean, his interviewing technique is in and of itself a way of interacting that is removed from basic societal norms.

1930
01:41:52,820 --> 01:42:13,880
But herself there, he knows that he doesn't like her sales pitch. He's going to try and get blood from a stone. Doesn't work out for him. And he didn't like the little barbed remark. I'm not sure whether or not Stu's the type of person who will hang on to little remarks like that. But it was noted in the chat. And now I'm thinking about it. Maybe he didn't like that.

1931
01:42:14,060 --> 01:42:14,660
I'm doing email.

1932
01:42:15,020 --> 01:42:15,760
No, not much different.

1933
01:42:16,140 --> 01:42:16,680
So what's different?

1934
01:42:16,820 --> 01:42:23,320
Well, it can also be different. How your screen looks would be different.

1935
01:42:23,540 --> 01:42:25,140
Mm-hmm. So that's a nice feature, obviously.

1936
01:42:25,140 --> 01:42:25,360
Yes.

1937
01:42:25,760 --> 01:42:25,980
All right.

1938
01:42:27,040 --> 01:42:27,440
Yeah.

1939
01:42:28,720 --> 01:42:29,520
Have a look here.

1940
01:42:29,520 --> 01:42:30,360
Three. Navigator three.

1941
01:42:30,360 --> 01:42:31,140
Navigator three.

1942
01:42:31,240 --> 01:42:31,420
Because?

1943
01:42:31,600 --> 01:42:33,920
Because it works fast.

1944
01:42:34,380 --> 01:42:35,920
All right. So it depends on what you want to do.

1945
01:42:36,480 --> 01:42:41,020
If you want to browse and search and get information quickly and you don't want all the multimedia junk.

1946
01:42:41,040 --> 01:42:41,220
No.

1947
01:42:41,840 --> 01:42:42,960
You would pick Navigator three.

1948
01:42:42,960 --> 01:42:46,800
And actually, I surf with images off. I just want to get in there, get my information, and get it.

1949
01:42:46,800 --> 01:42:47,140
Get out.

1950
01:42:47,360 --> 01:42:47,560
Yeah.

1951
01:42:48,460 --> 01:42:51,980
Switch images off, guys. Faster browsing experience. Okay?

1952
01:42:52,260 --> 01:42:55,520
So would you say bottom line, it really depends on how you want to use the web.

1953
01:42:55,620 --> 01:42:55,720
Correct.

1954
01:42:55,720 --> 01:43:01,040
If you want to do the multimedia, have it all look fancy, then maybe you need one of the new ones anyhow.

1955
01:43:01,200 --> 01:43:03,220
So I just want to hear the grandkids.

1956
01:43:03,480 --> 01:43:04,740
You're quite happy with Navigator three.

1957
01:43:04,740 --> 01:43:05,260
Yes, I am.

1958
01:43:05,640 --> 01:43:08,460
But the world is that with Win 98 coming and IE4.

1959
01:43:08,460 --> 01:43:09,800
She's not giving him anything.

1960
01:43:09,840 --> 01:43:11,220
You're quite happy with Navigator three.

1961
01:43:11,220 --> 01:43:11,740
Yes, I am.

1962
01:43:12,120 --> 01:43:17,220
But the world is that with Win 98 coming and IE4, it's all going to be very tightly bundled, right?

1963
01:43:17,400 --> 01:43:18,340
Yes, it is.

1964
01:43:18,660 --> 01:43:21,000
It's all going to be very tightly bundled, right?

1965
01:43:21,100 --> 01:43:25,620
You know, they plan to put the browser interface that you see onto Windows 98.

1966
01:43:25,720 --> 01:43:25,900
Yeah.

1967
01:43:25,900 --> 01:43:29,100
And so, you know, it would behoove you to get to be familiar with it.

1968
01:43:29,280 --> 01:43:29,520
All right.

1969
01:43:29,520 --> 01:43:30,260
Thanks very much.

1970
01:43:30,580 --> 01:43:32,000
Well, it would be what of you?

1971
01:43:32,180 --> 01:43:33,080
Behoove you, is it?

1972
01:43:33,300 --> 01:43:33,480
Yeah.

1973
01:43:33,480 --> 01:43:36,720
And so, you know, it would behoove you to get to be familiar with it.

1974
01:43:36,820 --> 01:43:36,900
Yeah.

1975
01:43:36,920 --> 01:43:37,140
All right.

1976
01:43:37,160 --> 01:43:37,840
Thanks very much.

1977
01:43:38,180 --> 01:43:39,180
It would behoove you.

1978
01:43:39,800 --> 01:43:42,080
It would behoove you to get to know it.

1979
01:43:42,740 --> 01:43:43,620
Is that what that means?

1980
01:43:43,740 --> 01:43:44,220
Behoove.

1981
01:43:44,480 --> 01:43:45,440
I've never even heard.

1982
01:43:46,040 --> 01:43:46,480
Behoove.

1983
01:43:48,360 --> 01:43:49,900
Fucking Shakespearean enough.

1984
01:43:50,780 --> 01:43:51,360
All right.

1985
01:43:52,080 --> 01:43:52,940
Behoove you, yeah?

1986
01:43:53,880 --> 01:43:55,840
I don't like your behoove, your lady.

1987
01:43:56,080 --> 01:43:57,760
Thank you very much, Farfurda.

1988
01:43:58,140 --> 01:44:04,020
A kind-hearted and generous tip has been dispatched from the lair of Farfurda towards the stream.

1989
01:44:04,380 --> 01:44:05,120
Very kind.

1990
01:44:05,520 --> 01:44:06,400
Very nice.

1991
01:44:06,760 --> 01:44:08,100
Very much appreciated.

1992
01:44:09,100 --> 01:44:12,160
Stu is about to tell this broad to talk to the hand.

1993
01:44:12,540 --> 01:44:15,940
If she's going to keep everything so tight to the vest.

1994
01:44:16,460 --> 01:44:19,080
That was my grandpa's nickname, the vest.

1995
01:44:19,580 --> 01:44:20,720
Guy never told anyone.

1996
01:44:21,140 --> 01:44:21,460
Ledge.

1997
01:44:21,600 --> 01:44:22,120
Thanks very much.

1998
01:44:22,120 --> 01:44:24,000
Well, that's our look at the browser wars.

1999
01:44:24,120 --> 01:44:26,320
I'll be back in just a moment with my pick of the week.

2000
01:44:26,700 --> 01:44:27,940
Pick of the week coming up.

2001
01:44:28,240 --> 01:44:30,400
Sponsored by Goodguys.

2002
01:44:36,760 --> 01:44:37,480
Fuck yeah!

2003
01:44:37,960 --> 01:44:40,280
Sorry about the language, but it is after 12.

2004
01:44:40,740 --> 01:44:41,420
Now for my pick.

2005
01:44:41,420 --> 01:44:49,740
And what a solid and kind of impactful, very impactful cut to Stu's face head on.

2006
01:44:51,120 --> 01:44:55,600
First thing you see in the morning, last thing you see before you close your eyes for the big sleep.

2007
01:44:56,400 --> 01:44:56,880
Boom.

2008
01:44:56,880 --> 01:44:56,940
Boom.

2009
01:45:02,500 --> 01:45:03,120
All right.

2010
01:45:03,120 --> 01:45:03,160
All right.

2011
01:45:03,160 --> 01:45:03,160
All right.

2012
01:45:03,160 --> 01:45:05,080
What else?

2013
01:45:05,080 --> 01:45:05,120
What else?

2014
01:45:06,700 --> 01:45:08,220
Now for my pick of the week.

2015
01:45:08,220 --> 01:45:13,260
I'm a little bit hesitant to recommend this program because it is basically a spy program.

2016
01:45:13,260 --> 01:45:17,420
It lets parents spy on their kids, employers spy on their employees.

2017
01:45:17,420 --> 01:45:21,860
But it is a new and innovative approach to censoring or filtering net content.

2018
01:45:21,860 --> 01:45:24,260
The program is called Disc Tracy.

2019
01:45:24,700 --> 01:45:25,580
And what it does is...

2020
01:45:25,580 --> 01:45:27,880
Did he say Disc Tracy there?

2021
01:45:31,160 --> 01:45:33,660
To search and detect.

2022
01:45:37,160 --> 01:45:43,820
Did he say parents that want to spy on their kids or employers who want to spy on their employees?

2023
01:45:43,920 --> 01:45:44,420
Is that it?

2024
01:45:45,420 --> 01:45:48,040
Monitor their children's computer files effectively.

2025
01:45:48,600 --> 01:45:52,980
Track downloads from the internet, news groups, and electronic bulleting boards.

2026
01:45:55,440 --> 01:45:56,600
Spy on their employees.

2027
01:45:56,600 --> 01:45:57,560
Spy program.

2028
01:45:57,860 --> 01:46:01,720
It lets parents spy on their kids, employers spy on their employees.

2029
01:46:02,040 --> 01:46:05,140
But it is a new and innovative approach to censoring or...

2030
01:46:05,140 --> 01:46:09,660
It lets parents spy on their employees and employers spy on their kids.

2031
01:46:09,660 --> 01:46:10,680
...filtering net content.

2032
01:46:11,200 --> 01:46:13,180
The program is called Disc Tracy.

2033
01:46:13,600 --> 01:46:21,040
And what it does is snoop onto your hard drive and find questionable files, both text and graphics, to see if there's any bad stuff there.

2034
01:46:22,060 --> 01:46:30,600
Bad stuff. Bad stuff. Bad stuff. Bad stuff.

2035
01:46:30,600 --> 01:46:35,540
You can set it up to look for files that deal with sex, drugs, violence, illegality, hacking.

2036
01:46:35,920 --> 01:46:40,360
So I tried this program, and it turns out to be one of the funniest pieces of software I've ever seen.

2037
01:46:40,600 --> 01:46:46,620
In a kind of shit way, like, you gotta try this software. It's fucking hilarious. It's terrible.

2038
01:46:47,060 --> 01:46:50,780
How is this funny? I gotta see this. I gotta see.

2039
01:46:51,000 --> 01:46:55,600
So I tried this program, and it turns out to be one of the funniest pieces of software I've ever seen.

2040
01:46:55,700 --> 01:46:59,320
I spied on my own hard drive to see if I had been a bad boy.

2041
01:47:01,000 --> 01:47:05,880
Gotta get that. Sorry, I just need to hear that one more time so I can record it.

2042
01:47:06,360 --> 01:47:09,820
And I've got that as a soundboard for the next episode of Fat 32.

2043
01:47:09,820 --> 01:47:12,060
Fat 32. The next stream, should I say.

2044
01:47:12,620 --> 01:47:14,080
Violence, illegality, hacking.

2045
01:47:14,500 --> 01:47:18,840
So I tried this program, and it turns out to be one of the funniest pieces of software I've ever seen.

2046
01:47:19,200 --> 01:47:22,500
I spied on my own hard drive to see if I had been a bad boy.

2047
01:47:22,820 --> 01:47:25,620
Well, I sure have been. Look at what this program found.

2048
01:47:26,120 --> 01:47:27,640
First of all, suspicious...

2049
01:47:27,640 --> 01:47:29,540
So he has been a bad boy.

2050
01:47:30,000 --> 01:47:33,680
Imagine he just showed his fucking hard drive, and it was like, whoa.

2051
01:47:34,180 --> 01:47:36,980
Thank you very much behooving it into you. Thank you very much.

2052
01:47:36,980 --> 01:47:40,780
...red alert on a readme file involved in the Windows installation...

2053
01:47:40,780 --> 01:47:46,900
Just self-fucking-outed himself as Dodge on his own TV show.

2054
01:47:46,980 --> 01:47:50,980
...of your graphics card because it found one of the options was a diamond...

2055
01:47:50,980 --> 01:47:52,660
Diamond Viper.

2056
01:47:52,660 --> 01:47:54,540
...diamond stealth card.

2057
01:47:55,300 --> 01:47:59,040
I guess I'm involved maybe in a teenage gang of stealing diamonds. I don't know.

2058
01:47:59,900 --> 01:48:00,660
It didn't really like...

2059
01:48:01,180 --> 01:48:07,800
Yeah, because all teenagers, we know that they're great at pulling off heists in jewelry shops and whatnot.

2060
01:48:08,000 --> 01:48:11,500
Usually it doesn't involve hard-in criminals who've been at it for years.

2061
01:48:11,660 --> 01:48:12,660
It's usually just teenagers.

2062
01:48:12,660 --> 01:48:16,460
...maybe in a teenage gang of stealing diamonds. I don't know.

2063
01:48:16,900 --> 01:48:20,280
It didn't really like this particular graphic over here.

2064
01:48:20,280 --> 01:48:28,500
A picture... a picture of a penis. And the next one, a handheld console held by a penis.

2065
01:48:29,340 --> 01:48:37,000
I deleted the files and immediately called the cops. They said not to worry. That isn't a problem right now.

2066
01:48:37,100 --> 01:48:43,000
Which is the basic Windows startup graphic. Maybe if you're a Freudian, that little cloud shape could have been a naked woman.

2067
01:48:43,740 --> 01:48:56,960
Jeez, you'd have to fucking really be hard-pressed for any bit of sexualized imagery to think that that's a naked woman. It's a fucking cloud, Stu. Cloud, Stu! It's a cloud!

2068
01:48:56,960 --> 01:49:07,180
...that's a startup graphic like this particular graphic over here, which is the basic Windows startup graphic. Maybe if you're a Freudian, that little cloud shape could have been a naked woman.

2069
01:49:07,180 --> 01:49:13,400
Thank you very much, there, Project U3. And none other than Ya Boy Turtle. Thank you very much, Ya Boy Turtle.

2070
01:49:13,400 --> 01:49:20,400
Or it does use the phrase "turning on my computer," which could be a sex or drug reference. It didn't like a file with...

2071
01:49:20,400 --> 01:49:26,620
...the title "drag drop," maybe a little S&M activity or wearing funny clothes.

2072
01:49:26,620 --> 01:49:35,620
Is there a lot of self-outing here? Like, we don't... There's not drag and drop. It's been in the lexicon for a long time, you know?

2073
01:49:35,620 --> 01:49:45,620
We've had... 1997, Stu. We've been doing this show for fucking ages. Dragging and dropping files into bins, recycled bins, into different folders.

2074
01:49:45,620 --> 01:50:08,840
...it didn't like a drag drop, maybe a little S&M activity or wearing funny clothes. We're wearing funny clothes. Bit of transgender, transgender bashing there. Handheld transgender bashing.

2075
01:50:08,840 --> 01:50:32,840
...it didn't like a size drop, maybe a little S&M activity or wearing funny clothes. It didn't like a size win, task switch, maybe some double entendres there. My favorite is it really wasn't happy with this bitmap file, which is the Toshiba logo. This happens to be a Toshiba laptop. I guess it's because the name of the file is Tosh logo. Could have been Tosh logo. Tosh. Tosh.

2076
01:50:32,840 --> 01:50:50,180
Maybe I have a wallpaper that I've downloaded that has a, you know, naked rear end on it. I don't know what it didn't like. Anyhow, if that weren't enough, the program crashed each time I tried to use it. It takes forever to scan even my relatively small hard drive. And of course, it's useless because all it checks is what Johnny has downloaded.

2077
01:50:51,180 --> 01:51:09,300
He's completely thrown Disc Tracy under the bus. The folks at Disc Tracy must have gone absolutely bushed after this. The business went under, big time. Thank you very much there, Culmore Man and drag queen Disc Tracy. Thank you very much.

2078
01:51:09,300 --> 01:51:14,640
...all the naked girls he wants. Just don't dump them on your hard drive, stupid. I'm sure the people who...

2079
01:51:14,640 --> 01:51:31,020
...and diamond vipers for life. Who made this program were well-intentioned, for as they say in their promotional materials, there are some problems with bad things on the net. But this program really proves the futility of trying to censor internet or hard drive content with a broad sweep of a keyword detective.

2080
01:51:31,320 --> 01:51:42,940
It's called Disc Tracy from Wattsoft Incorporated of Houston, Texas. Their website is disctracy.com. Maybe they should have kept the original name. But then again, the product wouldn't have made it through its own filter.

2081
01:51:43,260 --> 01:51:45,760
OOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

2082
01:51:47,140 --> 01:51:48,260
Fucking hell

2083
01:51:49,040 --> 01:51:50,140
Whoo!

2084
01:51:51,180 --> 01:51:55,700
That is a sick ass burn from the stew baby Shafey

2085
01:51:55,700 --> 01:51:58,760
He don't care what you gotta say

2086
01:51:58,760 --> 01:52:01,760
Dick Tracy got thrown under the bus

2087
01:52:01,760 --> 01:52:03,360
like a mother

2088
01:52:03,360 --> 01:52:05,280
ass

2089
01:52:05,280 --> 01:52:06,280
wha-

2090
01:52:06,280 --> 01:52:07,060
mother

2091
01:52:07,060 --> 01:52:09,060
ass

2092
01:52:09,060 --> 01:52:10,060
*Sigh*

2093
01:52:10,560 --> 01:52:12,760
That's it for this edition of the computer chronicles

2094
01:52:12,760 --> 01:52:14,760
Like wouldn't have disc-trayed on the well and-

2095
01:52:14,760 --> 01:52:16,760
Just hear that one more time for the thesis

2096
01:52:16,760 --> 01:52:19,760
the- the end, the conclusion of disc-tray-cy

2097
01:52:19,760 --> 01:52:21,760
All it checks is what Johnny has downloaded

2098
01:52:21,760 --> 01:52:23,760
He can look at all the naked girls he wants

2099
01:52:23,760 --> 01:52:26,760
Just don't dump them on your hard drive, stupid

2100
01:52:26,760 --> 01:52:29,760
Did you hear that?

2101
01:52:29,760 --> 01:52:36,760
...small hard drive, and of course it's useless because all it checks is what Johnny has downloaded

2102
01:52:36,760 --> 01:52:38,760
He can look at all the naked girls he wants

2103
01:52:38,760 --> 01:52:41,760
Just don't dump them on your hard drive, stupid

2104
01:52:42,260 --> 01:52:43,260
...

2105
01:52:43,260 --> 01:52:44,260
...

2106
01:52:44,260 --> 01:52:44,260
...

2107
01:52:44,260 --> 01:52:46,260
...

2108
01:52:46,260 --> 01:52:47,260
...

2109
01:52:47,260 --> 01:52:48,260
...

2110
01:52:48,260 --> 01:52:49,260
...

2111
01:52:49,260 --> 01:52:51,260
...

2112
01:52:51,260 --> 01:52:52,260
...

2113
01:52:52,260 --> 01:52:54,260
...

2114
01:52:54,260 --> 01:52:56,260
...

2115
01:52:56,260 --> 01:53:04,220
I'm sure the people who made this program were well-intentioned, for as they say in their promotional materials, there are some problems with bad things on the net.

2116
01:53:04,580 --> 01:53:08,660
But this program really proves the futility of trying to censor Internet.

2117
01:53:09,280 --> 01:53:10,980
Futile. Futility.

2118
01:53:11,260 --> 01:53:15,020
Or hard drive content with a broad sweep of a keyword detective.

2119
01:53:15,880 --> 01:53:17,580
Tush. Drag and drop.

2120
01:53:18,400 --> 01:53:21,620
It's called Disc Tracy from Wattsoft Incorporated of Houston.

2121
01:53:21,620 --> 01:53:28,940
He was really reaching for some of those search results or fucking results from the Disc Tracy, like the cloud thing and everything.

2122
01:53:30,500 --> 01:53:32,300
He's like, oh, if you're Freudian.

2123
01:53:32,460 --> 01:53:35,700
He found one of the options was a diamond stealth card.

2124
01:53:36,660 --> 01:53:37,660
Diamond stealth.

2125
01:53:38,140 --> 01:53:41,980
I guess I'm involved maybe in a teenage gang of stealing diamonds. I don't know.

2126
01:53:42,480 --> 01:53:47,980
It didn't really like this particular graphic over here, which is the basic Windows startup graphic.

2127
01:53:48,800 --> 01:53:51,900
Maybe if you're Freudian, that little cloud shape could have been a naked woman.

2128
01:53:52,320 --> 01:53:57,080
Or it does use the phrase turning on my computer, which could be a sex or drug reference.

2129
01:53:57,620 --> 01:53:59,120
But that's embedded in the image.

2130
01:53:59,240 --> 01:54:02,480
Surely the AI wasn't good enough to read the text burnt into an image.

2131
01:54:02,540 --> 01:54:04,160
Thank you very much. Stu took a dump.

2132
01:54:04,880 --> 01:54:07,560
It didn't like a file with the title drag drop.

2133
01:54:07,760 --> 01:54:10,440
Maybe a little S&M activity or wearing funny clothes.

2134
01:54:11,380 --> 01:54:12,800
Funny clothes.

2135
01:54:12,800 --> 01:54:16,140
It didn't like a size win task switch.

2136
01:54:16,260 --> 01:54:18,440
Maybe some double entendres there.

2137
01:54:18,440 --> 01:54:21,780
What? Win task switch.

2138
01:54:22,640 --> 01:54:23,960
Win task switch.

2139
01:54:24,480 --> 01:54:25,920
Double entendre. Win task.

2140
01:54:26,000 --> 01:54:27,700
I don't get that. What's he on about then?

2141
01:54:28,820 --> 01:54:29,380
With that one.

2142
01:54:30,700 --> 01:54:32,300
My favorite is it really...

2143
01:54:32,300 --> 01:54:34,100
Someone's saying, I don't know a few years on him now.

2144
01:54:34,160 --> 01:54:36,800
Stu might be into the old lemons.

2145
01:54:37,140 --> 01:54:38,020
I don't know what that means.

2146
01:54:38,020 --> 01:54:43,800
But if you're talking about his age, you know, having some sort of effect on his ability to critically analyze.

2147
01:54:43,800 --> 01:54:48,840
I'm not sure because he's... I've seen the interviews with him and he's still got it.

2148
01:54:49,340 --> 01:54:52,220
And they were only like in the last five years or something like that.

2149
01:54:52,560 --> 01:54:54,440
Thank you very much there for the tip, lad.

2150
01:54:54,540 --> 01:54:59,900
a phase small hard drive and uh stu took a dump he wasn't happy with this bitmap file which is the

2151
01:54:59,900 --> 01:55:05,060
toshiba logo this happens to be a toshiba laptop i guess it's because the name of the sorry i've

2152
01:55:05,060 --> 01:55:10,580
turned that up there and the volume is absolutely peaking and crackling file is tosh logo could

2153
01:55:10,580 --> 01:55:19,560
tosh logo could mean tush they've been tush logo maybe i have a wallpaper that i've downloaded that

2154
01:55:19,560 --> 01:55:24,500
has a you know naked rear end on it i don't know what it didn't like what where's the picture of

2155
01:55:24,500 --> 01:55:30,840
the like maybe i have down i have downloaded an image of a naked rear end is that what he's saying

2156
01:55:30,840 --> 01:55:35,520
or what anyhow if that weren't enough the program crashed each time i tried to use it it takes forever

2157
01:55:35,520 --> 01:55:41,020
to scan even my relatively small hard drive and of course it's useless because all it checks is what

2158
01:55:41,020 --> 01:55:46,060
johnny has downloaded he can look at all the naked girls he wants just don't dump them on your hard

2159
01:55:46,060 --> 01:55:50,920
drive stupid i'm sure the people who made this program were well-intentioned for as they say in

2160
01:55:50,920 --> 01:55:56,200
their promotional materials there are some problems with bad things on the net but this program really

2161
01:55:56,200 --> 01:56:02,540
proves the futility of trying to censor internet or hard drive content with a broad sweep of a keyword

2162
01:56:02,540 --> 01:56:08,580
detective it's called disc tracy from wattsoft incorporated of houston texas their website is

2163
01:56:08,580 --> 01:56:14,100
disc tracy.com maybe they should have kept the original name but then again the product wouldn't have made it

2164
01:56:14,100 --> 01:56:19,380
through its own filter. That's it for this edition of the Computer Chronicles. We'll be back here

2165
01:56:19,380 --> 01:56:25,840
again next week with more of the latest in computer and internet technology. I'm Stuart Trefay. Hope we'll see you here next time.

2166
01:56:27,720 --> 01:56:31,500
Computer Chronicles is made possible in part by SoftSource Incorporated,

2167
01:56:31,860 --> 01:56:35,960
publishers of Pro One Software, educational software for young adults,

2168
01:56:38,900 --> 01:56:43,660
and by Zee Auction, a live online shopping experience.

2169
01:56:43,660 --> 01:56:51,060
Additional funding from PC Connection and Mac Connection, the catalog and online superstore

2170
01:56:51,060 --> 01:56:55,780
with PC and Mac products, toll-free technical support, and overnight delivery.

2171
01:56:57,000 --> 01:57:03,380
And by Windows Magazine, delivering desktop, enterprise, and internet computing news,

2172
01:57:03,380 --> 01:57:09,980
reviews, features, and how-tos for a Windows world. Because the world runs on Windows.

2173
01:57:11,600 --> 01:57:25,480
To purchase a videotaped copy of today's program... $20! You could have bought that for $20! And we're watching it now on the World Wide Web for free. It's a great bit of business, the way it's all developed.

2174
01:57:25,480 --> 01:57:34,680
Call toll-free 1-888-310-7850. Please specify the show number and the topic.

2175
01:57:41,400 --> 01:57:47,800
Next week on the Computer Chronicles, our annual Consumers Buying Guide show. The best new computer and high-tech...

2176
01:57:47,800 --> 01:57:49,800
Clone name Gipsaw, thank you very much.

2177
01:57:49,900 --> 01:57:52,960
The techie world of Young Dilbert, much-awaited Riven.

2178
01:57:53,360 --> 01:57:55,860
Young Dilbert, the techie world of Young Dilbert.

2179
01:57:56,020 --> 01:57:59,400
It sounds like an absolutely electric, white-hot episode.

2180
01:58:00,200 --> 01:58:03,220
And thank you very much for tuning in to Fat32 tonight.

2181
01:58:03,880 --> 01:58:06,480
It's been an amazing Netcafe trip down memory lane.

2182
01:58:06,660 --> 01:58:12,000
And we're going to play out to the unbelievable quality soundtrack.

2183
01:58:14,120 --> 01:58:16,000
Handheld computers, here we go.

2184
01:58:16,180 --> 01:58:17,900
Sorry, we got a handheld in there.

2185
01:58:17,900 --> 01:58:19,240
Handheld gaming devices.

2186
01:58:20,580 --> 01:58:22,040
Handheld gaming devices.

2187
01:58:22,900 --> 01:58:24,080
Nintendo's Game Boy.

2188
01:58:24,880 --> 01:58:27,900
The fantastic new Atlas Sphere from Odyssey.

2189
01:58:28,060 --> 01:58:29,980
Series 5 handheld computers.

2190
01:58:30,320 --> 01:58:31,860
He says it like that as well.

2191
01:58:32,460 --> 01:58:33,140
Handheld.

2192
01:58:33,260 --> 01:58:34,480
Handheld gaming devices.

2193
01:58:35,260 --> 01:58:40,120
Robin Miller, the Geo Fox and Scion Series 5 handheld computers.

2194
01:58:40,460 --> 01:58:43,140
The fantastic new Atlas Sphere from Odyssey.

2195
01:58:43,560 --> 01:58:44,560
New digital camera.

2196
01:58:44,560 --> 01:58:45,620
That looks rubbish.

2197
01:58:45,720 --> 01:58:46,400
A digital camera.

2198
01:58:46,480 --> 01:58:47,480
Look at the size of it.

2199
01:58:47,620 --> 01:58:51,020
The fantastic new Atlas Sphere from Odyssey.

2200
01:58:51,280 --> 01:58:53,080
Series 5 handheld computers.

2201
01:58:53,560 --> 01:58:54,780
It's beautiful.

2202
01:58:55,000 --> 01:58:55,520
It's got everything.

2203
01:58:55,660 --> 01:58:57,280
The fantastic new handheld computer.

2204
01:58:57,280 --> 01:59:00,940
Geo Fox and Scion Series 5 handheld computers.

2205
01:59:01,080 --> 01:59:02,900
Series 5 handheld computers.

2206
01:59:02,900 --> 01:59:05,080
Series 5 handheld computers.

2207
01:59:05,080 --> 01:59:06,880
Series 5 handheld computers.

2208
01:59:07,200 --> 01:59:09,880
The fantastic new Atlas Sphere from Odyssey.

2209
01:59:09,880 --> 01:59:12,580
The new digital camera that records on a floppy.

2210
01:59:12,580 --> 01:59:15,800
Plus the Nokia 9000 communicator that does it all.

2211
01:59:16,120 --> 01:59:19,680
A great new artificial intelligence game called Calapagos.

2212
01:59:20,040 --> 01:59:20,380
Critter.

2213
01:59:20,540 --> 01:59:21,960
A new video cam for the Mac.

2214
01:59:22,120 --> 01:59:24,840
This cool new mini notebook computer from Mitsubishi.

2215
01:59:25,040 --> 01:59:26,420
Plus much, much more.

2216
01:59:26,760 --> 01:59:29,480
It's all coming up next week on the Computer Chronicles.

2217
01:59:29,640 --> 01:59:30,060
Go back!

2218
01:59:33,640 --> 01:59:34,080
Woo!

2219
01:59:36,040 --> 01:59:37,140
Thanks very much for watching.

2220
01:59:37,260 --> 01:59:38,260
Thanks very much, Newgate.

2221
01:59:38,420 --> 01:59:39,440
We'll talk to you later on.